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American health care vs the world!

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Posts

  • Clown ShoesClown Shoes Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    because the private sector would still do a better job than the government can at providing coverage

    I'd love to see some evidence for that.
    I believe it is founded in the practice of excluding high risk cases and preexisting conditions; you can provide excellent coverage if you don't have to "waste" your money spending more than you receive from your subscribers.

    I can provide 100% coverage for $1 a month as long as I define coverage as "things I can cover with a band-aid".
    Clown Shoes on
  • MortiousMortious Move to New Zealand Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    because the private sector would still do a better job than the government can at providing coverage

    I'd love to see some evidence for that.

    I wouldn't say better, I'd go with more customized.

    My insurance doesn't give me anything more than the Government health care would, but it does allow me to get non-critical things done quicker (but not by a lot, since Health Insurance is cheap, a lot of people have it) and allows me more flexibility on how I go about it.

    I have insurance because I choose too (and it's freely provided by work) not because I have too.
  • KetBraKetBra shut up and jamRegistered User regular
    SammyF wrote: »
    ...so should we infer that the only person who wholeheartedly agreed with the OP here was his own Alt account? Because that's awesome.
    Wait that means he wad also cheating at phalla
    yA895.png
  • redxredx Dublin, CARegistered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Mortious wrote: »
    but it does allow me to get non-critical things done quicker

    You don't judge a healthcare system by how well it does non-critical things.

    I had appendicitis when I was 14 and visiting my grandparents on the other side of the country. My parents took me to the nearest hospital and they operated on me immediately. When I was back home and needed checkups or the stitches out, we called the local doctor and booked an appointment for the next day. No wait, no fuss and no worries about whether my parents could afford to keep their first born alive.

    That's healthcare in the first world.
    Well, depending on how you want to describe non-critical things, they can be pretty... well... critical. If non-critical is going to include preventive care and mental health coverage, then I feel really comfortable judging a healthcare system by them.

    Critical in the States is often pretty close to emergency care. That's bullshit.
    redx on
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  • Clown ShoesClown Shoes Registered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    Mortious wrote: »
    but it does allow me to get non-critical things done quicker

    You don't judge a healthcare system by how well it does non-critical things.

    I had appendicitis when I was 14 and visiting my grandparents on the other side of the country. My parents took me to the nearest hospital and they operated on me immediately. When I was back home and needed checkups or the stitches out, we called the local doctor and booked an appointment for the next day. No wait, no fuss and no worries about whether my parents could afford to keep their first born alive.

    That's healthcare in the first world.
    Well, depending on how you want to describe non-critical things, they can be pretty... well... critical. If non-critical is going to include preventive care and mental health coverage, then I feel really comfortable judging a healthcare system by them.

    We have preventative care also and it's there even if you're broke. If you want to have it in a plush office with leather chairs, you can still go private.
  • MortiousMortious Move to New Zealand Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    but it does allow me to get non-critical things done quicker

    You don't judge a healthcare system by how well it does non-critical things.

    I had appendicitis when I was 14 and visiting my grandparents on the other side of the country. My parents took me to the nearest hospital and they operated on me immediately. When I was back home and needed checkups or the stitches out, we called the local doctor and booked an appointment for the next day. No wait, no fuss and no worries about whether my parents could afford to keep their first born alive.

    That's healthcare in the first world.



    I can only judge it on non-critical things unfortunately.

    But from what I've been told, critical things get handled here very well.
  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User regular
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    because the private sector would still do a better job than the government can at providing coverage

    I'd love to see some evidence for that.

    Aren't you from outside America? The experience in pretty much every country with social we medicine seems to show that private healthcare is still better than Public care in those countries.


    "There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -- Andrew Jackson
    SKFM annoys me the most on this board.
  • Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    because the private sector would still do a better job than the government can at providing coverage

    I'd love to see some evidence for that.

    Aren't you from outside America? The experience in pretty much every country with social we medicine seems to show that private healthcare is still better than Public care in those countries.

    Private healthcare will always be better than public healthcare, but having a public option that doesn't suck provides competition and forces the private sector to step up its game and provide a better quality service. There's no point paying $10k for a procedure that you can get for free elsewhere unless the private option is better somehow. I'm in Australia and I recently switched from a private clinic that charged $60 for a GP's appointment to a bulk-billing (free) one, and I haven't noticed a significant drop in quality of service at all yet, there's just a slightly longer wait before I'm seen and no TV in the waiting room. At 60 bucks a pop, I can live with that.

    What I'm saying is, having a public option that's decent forces the private option to be even better, or lose all their business.
    Mr Ray on
  • MortiousMortious Move to New Zealand Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Mr Ray wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    because the private sector would still do a better job than the government can at providing coverage

    I'd love to see some evidence for that.

    Aren't you from outside America? The experience in pretty much every country with social we medicine seems to show that private healthcare is still better than Public care in those countries.

    Private healthcare will always be better than public healthcare, but having a public option that doesn't suck provides competition and forces the private sector to step up its game and provide a better quality of service. There's no point paying $10k for a procedure that you can get for free elsewhere. I'm in Australia and I recently switched from a private clinic that charged $60 for a GP's appointment to a bulk-billing (free) one, and I haven't noticed a significant drop in quality of service at all yet, there's just a slightly longer wait before I'm seen. For 60 bucks a pop, I can live with that.

    Pretty much this.

    My health insurance is cheap, and provides nice benefits, because if they weren't/didn't I just wouldn't use them.

    I've had the opportunity in the last 2 months to visit quite a few different doctors, specialists and labs.

    The private ones had nicer offices, but the level of care was comparable.

    Edit: This is compared to South Africa where the Health Insurance was expensive, and cover was limited.
    Mortious on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    but it does allow me to get non-critical things done quicker

    You don't judge a healthcare system by how well it does non-critical things.

    I had appendicitis when I was 14 and visiting my grandparents on the other side of the country. My parents took me to the nearest hospital and they operated on me immediately. When I was back home and needed checkups or the stitches out, we called the local doctor and booked an appointment for the next day. No wait, no fuss and no worries about whether my parents could afford to keep their first born alive.

    That's healthcare in the first world.



    Yes and if you were an adult this might happen to

    then a month later you'd get a bill for $55,000
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  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    Private healthcare is fucking great.

    If you can afford it. Which is why the UK still, 60 years after the NHS was created, has a thriving private healthcare market.
    Lh96QHG.png
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Registered User regular
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Private care will by necessity always be a better level of care for the individual than public care, since otherwise nobody would ever pay for Private healthcare.

    But that doesn't mean that private care gives better overall care than public care, or that private companies give better coverage than the government.

    Those are entirely separate issues. And I know that in the US media, reports of waiting lists etc in countries with socialised health care are vastly overblown. And when I say vastly overblown, I mean massively exaggerated. And when I say massively exaggerated, I mean flat-out lies.

    Aren't those lines pretty much just "this rich dude could just pay for the treatment here, but there he has to wait a bit?" And by that, I mean the media never mentions that he is rich?
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  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Private care will by necessity always be a better level of care for the individual than public care, since otherwise nobody would ever pay for Private healthcare.

    But that doesn't mean that private care gives better overall care than public care, or that private companies give better coverage than the government.

    Those are entirely separate issues. And I know that in the US media, reports of waiting lists etc in countries with socialised health care are vastly overblown. And when I say vastly overblown, I mean massively exaggerated. And when I say massively exaggerated, I mean flat-out lies.

    Aren't those lines pretty much just "this rich dude could just pay for the treatment here, but there he has to wait a bit?" And by that, I mean the media never mentions that he is rich?

    The rich dude can just pay for treatment there through a private practice doctor.
    AManFromEarth on
    Lh96QHG.png
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    Yeah rich people never have to wait unless they choose to.
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  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Private Healthcare in a UHC system is basically an option to skip any ques that occur if a non-critical health problem should occur. Its rarely a way to get superior health care beyond having your health problems taken care of sooner. Which admittedly has a huge impact on survival rates and quality of life, but its the time factor not the hospital that's the deciding factor. Doctors may be better, but not by as much as private doctors claim. It also means a nicer room to recover in afterwards.

    If you get a critical health problem in a UHC, its the ER same as the US.

    Edit: At least that's the case in Norway
    Kipling217 on
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  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons LondresRegistered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    Mr Ray wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    because the private sector would still do a better job than the government can at providing coverage

    I'd love to see some evidence for that.

    Aren't you from outside America? The experience in pretty much every country with social we medicine seems to show that private healthcare is still better than Public care in those countries.

    Private healthcare will always be better than public healthcare, but having a public option that doesn't suck provides competition and forces the private sector to step up its game and provide a better quality of service. There's no point paying $10k for a procedure that you can get for free elsewhere. I'm in Australia and I recently switched from a private clinic that charged $60 for a GP's appointment to a bulk-billing (free) one, and I haven't noticed a significant drop in quality of service at all yet, there's just a slightly longer wait before I'm seen. For 60 bucks a pop, I can live with that.

    Pretty much this.

    My health insurance is cheap, and provides nice benefits, because if they weren't/didn't I just wouldn't use them.

    I've had the opportunity in the last 2 months to visit quite a few different doctors, specialists and labs.

    The private ones had nicer offices, but the level of care was comparable.

    Edit: This is compared to South Africa where the Health Insurance was expensive, and cover was limited.

    It does get a bit odd in NZ sometimes though, perhaps due to the size of the country.

    So I also had private health insurance in NZ for some years and used it largely as Mortious outlined, to skip the queue to see specialists for non acute issues. However, on the one occasion I used it for an emergency (not sure if it meets definition of acute), the same person who was scheduled to have done the operation under public system was the guy who did it privately. I understand that it is pretty common to have specialists have a private practice running alongside their public duties in such places, if just that the market/profession/system probably cannot sustain having a lot of specialists in a lightly populated area. Now that seems to be something that everyone in the system is aware of and it may be that the public system cannot afford to hire him all week, at least by comparison to what he might be able to get (in income) as pure private or elsewhere (overseas I would think) if he decided to do that. But I must admit it was a trifle odd at first

    For acute, well, yes, I've been through the NZ system a bit and it is pretty fast/good. Non acute, well, it depends on the condition and the area you live in and Waiting Lists very much have been a political issue in NZ for as long as I have read the political section of the newspapers.
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • ChrysisChrysis Registered User regular
    Kalkino wrote: »
    Now that seems to be something that everyone in the system is aware of and it may be that the public system cannot afford to hire him all week, at least by comparison to what he might be able to get (in income) as pure private or elsewhere (overseas I would think) if he decided to do that.

    This is pretty much the gist of it as far as I understand. It's too expensive for a Public hospital to keep a certain specialist on staff, so a Private specialist is contracted for a certain amount of time per week.

    It's also, at least partially, a demand thing as well. NZ just doesn't have the population concentrated enough to make certain specialists viable as a full time Public employee. So instead they'll be contracted in as needed to fill any gaps in the Public coverage. That would pretty much require private specialists so that the different District Health Boards aren't treading all over each others shoes with jurisdiction (and thus payment) problems.
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  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons LondresRegistered User regular
    Whenever I read this kind of thread I am always quickly reminded that I don't really know anything about how the NZ system actually works.

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava One day, I will be able to say to myself "I am beautiful and I am perfect just the way I am"Registered User regular
    every time i read one of these threads, I thank god that I'm in NZ now.

    which reminds me, I need to book my next boobsqueeze.

    even without residency and no insurance, it's only like $140 bucks.

    i. love. this. country. and the healthcare.
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  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons LondresRegistered User regular
    every time i read one of these threads, I thank god that I'm in NZ now.

    which reminds me, I need to book my next boobsqueeze.

    even without residency and no insurance, it's only like $140 bucks.

    i. love. this. country. and the healthcare.

    You must not be far off residency now. I would be interested in knowing how much cheaper it is.

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava One day, I will be able to say to myself "I am beautiful and I am perfect just the way I am"Registered User regular
    Kalkino wrote: »
    every time i read one of these threads, I thank god that I'm in NZ now.

    which reminds me, I need to book my next boobsqueeze.

    even without residency and no insurance, it's only like $140 bucks.

    i. love. this. country. and the healthcare.

    You must not be far off residency now. I would be interested in knowing how much cheaper it is.

    My casual doctor's visits are about $60 right now. After i get my residency I think it goes down to like $15 or something ridiculous.

    like a Co-pay but not really!


    I'm gonna start working on my residency paperwork right after the wedding (in 7 months ohmygod). Get that sorted through most of the start of next year, then send in the paperwork and then pray. lol.

    but seriously, it is so much better down here I can't even believe it.
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  • MortiousMortious Move to New Zealand Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Kalkino wrote: »
    every time i read one of these threads, I thank god that I'm in NZ now.

    which reminds me, I need to book my next boobsqueeze.

    even without residency and no insurance, it's only like $140 bucks.

    i. love. this. country. and the healthcare.

    You must not be far off residency now. I would be interested in knowing how much cheaper it is.

    My casual doctor's visits are about $60 right now. After i get my residency I think it goes down to like $15 or something ridiculous.

    like a Co-pay but not really!


    I'm gonna start working on my residency paperwork right after the wedding (in 7 months ohmygod). Get that sorted through most of the start of next year, then send in the paperwork and then pray. lol.

    but seriously, it is so much better down here I can't even believe it.

    My doctor appointments are $17 a visit.

    2 week course of useless anti-depressant meds was $5.

    Insurance premium for spouse (since mine is free) is $36mo (Though that might be subsidised since she's on my plan?)

    Back in SA, for both of us cost $315mo. And that excluded medication and doctor's visits.

    Good luck on you residency app!
  • PLAPLA Registered User regular
    Talking to a doctor and having tests costs maybe something like $15. But only up to $150 in a year, I guess.
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons LondresRegistered User regular
    Speaking of South Africa, article 27 if the Bill of Rights does create a right to access health care and emergency treatment. The provision is a clear
    right and one that had been used to force the central government to change
    HIV policy
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    PLA wrote: »
    Talking to a doctor and having tests costs maybe something like $15. But only up to $150 in a year, I guess.

    This part is never really talk about when people talk about UHC, but at a certain point even the small copays drop away. You hit the limit of between $150 and $500 and all the cost fall away for the rest of the year. If you have a permanent medical condition, you will never pay for medical cost in relation to that condition. My dad had a heart bypass and needs a bunch of medicines to live(doing fine) and has never paid a dime for any of them. That is 5-6 very expensive medical drugs and not a dime in copay.

    As if the system says "wow, guess you are really sick, better get this shit looked at".

    Edit: This is the case in Norway.

    Kipling217 on
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  • spacekungfumanspacekungfuman Poor and minority-filled Registered User regular
    I don't think anyone would dispute that public health care in infinitely better than no health care, but are there no gaps in public coverage? For example, in the US there is a big disparity among private insurers in how they cover infertility, and a lot of the top doctors don't take any insurance, so you have to submit for reimbursement your self. Are there no areas like that under UHC? What about elective procedures or plastic surgery?


    "There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing." -- Andrew Jackson
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  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons LondresRegistered User regular
    Well in NZ, dentistry appears to be a partial gap, or it was anyway.

    So up till a certain age all children get or got free dental care, delivered by a government service of nurses (whether the quality is good enough is another question), then I think free care till 18. After that you are on your own I think and there is no subsidy.
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    I don't think anyone would dispute that public health care in infinitely better than no health care, but are there no gaps in public coverage? For example, in the US there is a big disparity among private insurers in how they cover infertility, and a lot of the top doctors don't take any insurance, so you have to submit for reimbursement your self. Are there no areas like that under UHC? What about elective procedures or plastic surgery?

    Everything relating to your health is covered. If you can prove for example that plastic surgery would improve your health (usually mental) then it will be covered under the NHS. Good examples include plastic surgery after burns/ disfiguring accidents. Or breast reduction surgery for people who have back problems. If you can make a convincing enough claim to the NHS you will get your surgery done.
    If you want a nose job because you think your nose ain't great then chances are you will have to go private.
    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phoney God's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
  • Irond WillIrond Will Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    because the private sector would still do a better job than the government can at providing coverage

    I'd love to see some evidence for that.

    Aren't you from outside America? The experience in pretty much every country with social we medicine seems to show that private healthcare is still better than Public care in those countries.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/117205/americans-not-feeling-health-benefits-high-spending.aspx

    about median on satisfaction, a little below median for health index

    somewhere around double in per-capita cost

    usa usa
  • Irond WillIrond Will Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    I don't think anyone would dispute that public health care in infinitely better than no health care, but are there no gaps in public coverage? For example, in the US there is a big disparity among private insurers in how they cover infertility, and a lot of the top doctors don't take any insurance, so you have to submit for reimbursement your self. Are there no areas like that under UHC? What about elective procedures or plastic surgery?

    elective procedures are kind of covered and kind of controversial. i saw a documentary about a guy seeking a sex change in england in the 90s, and he had to jump through a number of hoops and wait a while before he was cleared for it. the documentary interviewed a number of "men on the street" who did not think this was a good use of their tax money. it happened eventually though.

    cosmetic surgery is, i think, similar
  • CasualCasual IT'S CRIME TIME MOTHAFUCKAS WE OUTRegistered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Irond Will wrote: »
    I don't think anyone would dispute that public health care in infinitely better than no health care, but are there no gaps in public coverage? For example, in the US there is a big disparity among private insurers in how they cover infertility, and a lot of the top doctors don't take any insurance, so you have to submit for reimbursement your self. Are there no areas like that under UHC? What about elective procedures or plastic surgery?

    elective procedures are kind of covered and kind of controversial. i saw a documentary about a guy seeking a sex change in england in the 90s, and he had to jump through a number of hoops and wait a while before he was cleared for it. the documentary interviewed a number of "men on the street" who did not think this was a good use of their tax money. it happened eventually though.

    cosmetic surgery is, i think, similar

    Worse still is when the daily mail manages to get hold of stuff like women getting breast implants for psycological reasons.

    It doesn't happen a lot but it happens enough for people who enjoy getting outraged to get outraged about.

    Casual on
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  • DeebaserDeebaser Way out in the water See it swimmin'?Registered User regular
    I don't think anyone would dispute that public health care in infinitely better than no health care, but are there no gaps in public coverage? For example, in the US there is a big disparity among private insurers in how they cover infertility, and a lot of the top doctors don't take any insurance, so you have to submit for reimbursement your self. Are there no areas like that under UHC? What about elective procedures or plastic surgery?

    Infertility is one of those things private insurance doesn't cover because it is a dumb expensive, not "medically necessary"*, and as their are typically only a handful of competitive players in each market, it's risky as hell to get ahead of the ball.

    Of the companies in my area that have offered it in the past as a rider to a plan, that rider costs $TEXAS.
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  • bowenbowen Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Private care will by necessity always be a better level of care for the individual than public care, since otherwise nobody would ever pay for Private healthcare.

    But that doesn't mean that private care gives better overall care than public care, or that private companies give better coverage than the government.

    Those are entirely separate issues. And I know that in the US media, reports of waiting lists etc in countries with socialised health care are vastly overblown. And when I say vastly overblown, I mean massively exaggerated. And when I say massively exaggerated, I mean flat-out lies.

    Waiting lists in America are almost worse than socialized countries.

    My mother has bcbs, she waited almost 2 months to have her gallbladder removed. She contemplated going over to Canada and dropping the $1000-3000 (forgot the exact number, but it wasn't that high) or so to have the surgery done there, because, 2 months was borderline dangerous at her age.
    bowen on
  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Private care will by necessity always be a better level of care for the individual than public care, since otherwise nobody would ever pay for Private healthcare.

    But that doesn't mean that private care gives better overall care than public care, or that private companies give better coverage than the government.

    Those are entirely separate issues. And I know that in the US media, reports of waiting lists etc in countries with socialised health care are vastly overblown. And when I say vastly overblown, I mean massively exaggerated. And when I say massively exaggerated, I mean flat-out lies.

    Waiting lists in America are almost worse than socialized countries.

    My mother has bcbs, she waited almost 2 months to have her gallbladder removed. She contemplated going over to Canada and dropping the $1000-3000 (forgot the exact number, but it wasn't that high) or so to have the surgery done there, because, 2 months was borderline dangerous at her age.
    What?! My mother had her gall bladder removed within a week of finding out she needed it to be. And she had heart surgery within a week of finding out that was necessary too.

    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phoney God's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Irond Will wrote: »
    I don't think anyone would dispute that public health care in infinitely better than no health care, but are there no gaps in public coverage? For example, in the US there is a big disparity among private insurers in how they cover infertility, and a lot of the top doctors don't take any insurance, so you have to submit for reimbursement your self. Are there no areas like that under UHC? What about elective procedures or plastic surgery?

    elective procedures are kind of covered and kind of controversial. i saw a documentary about a guy seeking a sex change in england in the 90s, and he had to jump through a number of hoops and wait a while before he was cleared for it. the documentary interviewed a number of "men on the street" who did not think this was a good use of their tax money. it happened eventually though.

    cosmetic surgery is, i think, similar

    In general the argument usually comes down to cost-effectiveness (which in the instance of things like cosmetic surgery or sex reassignment surgery includes considerations like balancing the cost against providing this person with therapy and/or psychiatric medication for the rest of their lives, which is a calculation healthcare providers using an insurance model don't typically have to make, as their risk horizon is so short), public expectation, and room in the budget.

    I don't think (or I've certainly never heard of) a doctor refusing to do work on behalf of the NHS. If you're a top specialist that is where most of your referrals are going to come from, pretty much by definition.

    EDIT: on fertility treatment, the general approach taken (though it varies between different health authorities) is generally a balancing of the reasons for the infertility with the chance of success and the risk of carrying out whatever procedure is selected. It's definitely available, but tends to cover a different group of people than private providers (because their market principally consists of catering to the people that the NHS won't).
    japan on
  • DeebaserDeebaser Way out in the water See it swimmin'?Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    bowen wrote: »
    poshniallo wrote: »
    Private care will by necessity always be a better level of care for the individual than public care, since otherwise nobody would ever pay for Private healthcare.

    But that doesn't mean that private care gives better overall care than public care, or that private companies give better coverage than the government.

    Those are entirely separate issues. And I know that in the US media, reports of waiting lists etc in countries with socialised health care are vastly overblown. And when I say vastly overblown, I mean massively exaggerated. And when I say massively exaggerated, I mean flat-out lies.

    Waiting lists in America are almost worse than socialized countries.

    My mother has bcbs, she waited almost 2 months to have her gallbladder removed. She contemplated going over to Canada and dropping the $1000-3000 (forgot the exact number, but it wasn't that high) or so to have the surgery done there, because, 2 months was borderline dangerous at her age.
    What?! My mother had her gall bladder removed within a week of finding out she needed it to be. And she had heart surgery within a week of finding out that was necessary too.

    Comparing anecdotes wrt Murican Healthcare is pointless. Timing and Geography can flip your story to bowens (and vice versa) very quickly even if your plans are identical.

    You're xpecting sense when there is none :)
    Deebaser on
    #FreeThan
    #FreeScheck
    #FreeSKFM
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