Iron Thread 3: Out Now! [Iron Man 3] (Use SPOILER Tags!)

Harry Dresden

jdarksun wrote: »

ED! wrote: »

Thing is I totally figured that this would be ok because well, The Ten Rings was a terrorist group in the first film and so-and-so was never REALLY mentioned. But come on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV8H7kszXqo

is NOT what we got. I mean half the dialogue and shots aren't in the damn movie! I dunno. I'm just annoyed at this film. If I had no idea who most of these guys were I'd feel that this was probably one of the best things I had ever seen and MARVEL Films has done it - AGAIN! Up until

the big reveal I was all giddy like a school girl, pointing out all the touches that were true to the comics. And then it happened and I'm like. . ."The fuck. Are you serious?!"

Had they played The Mandarin totally straight I think the audience would have totally gone along with it:

The wormhole opened up a world of hurt, not the least of which were the literal Ten Rings for the mandarin to use. Or shit, tie it into The Red Skull opening a hole to Asgard if we need to make things chronologically cogent.

Don't though jam a major player in IM mythology into a recent story ark and waste a villain that'son the same cross-over level as Loki.

Regarding your first spoiler:

Every shot and line of dialog in that trailer are in the movie.

Regarding your second:

The Mandarin as a villain is racist as fuck. He's a Yellow Scare boogeyman that the comic book authors at the time cobbled together from pop myth.

...which is exactly what we got. A cobbled together pop myth. Except instead of being a Scary Asian Dude, he turned out to be just as hollow as the racist tropes that composed him.

You're using outdated information. Mandarin has been revamped numerous times in the comics so he's not a racist stereotype anymore. There's also the great version in Armored Adventures. So there's no excuse not to use him, especially when Red fucking Skull is right over there in The First Avenger. If he's not a racist stereotype anymore why not use him? They can do more with the character then what they eluded to in the movie with fake Mandarin, though that had potential being played straight, too. Just because Shane Black doesn't have the vision to update Mandarin doesn't mean no-one can. I'd love to see Whedon taking a shot at a serious Mandarin. The Shadow did an excellent adaption for Shiwan Kahn who was Mandarin-lite.

jdarksun

Harry Dresden wrote: »

jdarksun wrote: »

ED! wrote: »

Thing is I totally figured that this would be ok because well, The Ten Rings was a terrorist group in the first film and so-and-so was never REALLY mentioned. But come on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV8H7kszXqo

is NOT what we got. I mean half the dialogue and shots aren't in the damn movie! I dunno. I'm just annoyed at this film. If I had no idea who most of these guys were I'd feel that this was probably one of the best things I had ever seen and MARVEL Films has done it - AGAIN! Up until

the big reveal I was all giddy like a school girl, pointing out all the touches that were true to the comics. And then it happened and I'm like. . ."The fuck. Are you serious?!"

Had they played The Mandarin totally straight I think the audience would have totally gone along with it:

The wormhole opened up a world of hurt, not the least of which were the literal Ten Rings for the mandarin to use. Or shit, tie it into The Red Skull opening a hole to Asgard if we need to make things chronologically cogent.

Don't though jam a major player in IM mythology into a recent story ark and waste a villain that'son the same cross-over level as Loki.

Regarding your first spoiler:

Every shot and line of dialog in that trailer are in the movie.

Regarding your second:

The Mandarin as a villain is racist as fuck. He's a Yellow Scare boogeyman that the comic book authors at the time cobbled together from pop myth.

...which is exactly what we got. A cobbled together pop myth. Except instead of being a Scary Asian Dude, he turned out to be just as hollow as the racist tropes that composed him.

You're using outdated information. Mandarin has been revamped numerous times in the comics so he's not a racist stereotype anymore. There's also the great version in Armored Adventures. So there's no excuse not to use him, especially when Red fucking Skull is right over there in The Winter Soldier. If he's not a racist stereotype anymore why not use him? They can do more with the character then what they eluded to in the movie with fake Mandarin, though that had potential being played straight, too. Just because Shane Black doesn't have the vision to update Mandarin doesn't mean no-one can. I'd love to see Whedon taking a shot at a serious Mandarin. The Shadow did an excellent adaption for Shiwan Kahn who was Mandarin-lite.

Dude, the very name "Mandarin" is racist. It's the title of a Chinese civil servant. It's like all the black superheroes whose name are "Black <something else>" just because they're black.

Could somebody, somewhere gold plate that turd? I guess, I don't really care. It's still a turd. And it was way more creative and interesting to turn this Eeeevil Yellow Scare into a puppet. Great fake out, nice job Marvel.

Not seeing what's racist about Red Skull. Because he's a Nazi and he's German?

Undead Scottsman

jdarksun wrote: »

ED! wrote: »

Thing is I totally figured that this would be ok because well, The Ten Rings was a terrorist group in the first film and so-and-so was never REALLY mentioned. But come on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV8H7kszXqo

is NOT what we got. I mean half the dialogue and shots aren't in the damn movie! I dunno. I'm just annoyed at this film. If I had no idea who most of these guys were I'd feel that this was probably one of the best things I had ever seen and MARVEL Films has done it - AGAIN! Up until

the big reveal I was all giddy like a school girl, pointing out all the touches that were true to the comics. And then it happened and I'm like. . ."The fuck. Are you serious?!"

Had they played The Mandarin totally straight I think the audience would have totally gone along with it:

The wormhole opened up a world of hurt, not the least of which were the literal Ten Rings for the mandarin to use. Or shit, tie it into The Red Skull opening a hole to Asgard if we need to make things chronologically cogent.

Don't though jam a major player in IM mythology into a recent story ark and waste a villain that'son the same cross-over level as Loki.

Regarding your first spoiler:

Every shot and line of dialog in that trailer are in the movie.

Regarding your second:

The Mandarin as a villain is racist as fuck. He's a Yellow Scare boogeyman that the comic book authors at the time cobbled together from pop myth.

...which is exactly what we got. A cobbled together pop myth. Except instead of being a Scary Asian Dude, he turned out to be just as hollow as the racist tropes that composed him.

Jesus christ...

Mandarin hasn't been a racist character in ages; could people stop saying this?

Harry Dresden

jdarksun wrote: »

Harry Dresden wrote: »

jdarksun wrote: »

ED! wrote: »

Thing is I totally figured that this would be ok because well, The Ten Rings was a terrorist group in the first film and so-and-so was never REALLY mentioned. But come on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV8H7kszXqo

is NOT what we got. I mean half the dialogue and shots aren't in the damn movie! I dunno. I'm just annoyed at this film. If I had no idea who most of these guys were I'd feel that this was probably one of the best things I had ever seen and MARVEL Films has done it - AGAIN! Up until

the big reveal I was all giddy like a school girl, pointing out all the touches that were true to the comics. And then it happened and I'm like. . ."The fuck. Are you serious?!"

Had they played The Mandarin totally straight I think the audience would have totally gone along with it:

The wormhole opened up a world of hurt, not the least of which were the literal Ten Rings for the mandarin to use. Or shit, tie it into The Red Skull opening a hole to Asgard if we need to make things chronologically cogent.

Don't though jam a major player in IM mythology into a recent story ark and waste a villain that'son the same cross-over level as Loki.

Regarding your first spoiler:

Every shot and line of dialog in that trailer are in the movie.

Regarding your second:

The Mandarin as a villain is racist as fuck. He's a Yellow Scare boogeyman that the comic book authors at the time cobbled together from pop myth.

...which is exactly what we got. A cobbled together pop myth. Except instead of being a Scary Asian Dude, he turned out to be just as hollow as the racist tropes that composed him.

You're using outdated information. Mandarin has been revamped numerous times in the comics so he's not a racist stereotype anymore. There's also the great version in Armored Adventures. So there's no excuse not to use him, especially when Red fucking Skull is right over there in The Winter Soldier. If he's not a racist stereotype anymore why not use him? They can do more with the character then what they eluded to in the movie with fake Mandarin, though that had potential being played straight, too. Just because Shane Black doesn't have the vision to update Mandarin doesn't mean no-one can. I'd love to see Whedon taking a shot at a serious Mandarin. The Shadow did an excellent adaption for Shiwan Kahn who was Mandarin-lite.

Dude, the very name "Mandarin" is racist. It's the title of a Chinese civil servant. It's like all the black superheroes whose name are "Black <something else>" just because they're black.

Could somebody, somewhere gold plate that turd? I guess, I don't really care. It's still a turd. And it was way more creative and interesting to turn this Eeeevil Yellow Scare into a puppet. Great fake out, nice job Marvel.

Not seeing what's racist about Red Skull. Because he's a Nazi and he's German?

Then call him by his real name - Gene Kahn.

Red Skull can be seen as a racist stereotype of Germans from World War 2. Being a Nazi doesn't mean he can't be a racist depiction. Comics from that era he was created in, WW 2, were not progressive like they are today. You can add in all the Japanese villains from that era, too. All the criticisms about Mandarin being played straight can be applied to him in The First Avenger and while he was updating to not being a Nazi anymore in the comics he's still very much like his original counterpart in both media currently, a claim that can't be made to Mandarin.

edit: Do I need to point out you're complaining about something that hasn't existed for literally decades?

ED!

The "Heroes. . ." line I am fairly certain was not in the movie. However my statement was more towards the sentiment that was being conveyed in the trailer - it is not even close to what was delivered. Oh Feige and the MARVEL-Boosters can get online and talk about how all this was some meta attempt at disinformation tying into the movie, but I'm sorry that's a load. The 2nd trailer is even more egregious in cut dialogue (which I feel at this point was never meant to even be included).

As to the whole "Oh my god, The Mandarin is a racist caricature. . ." - oh please. What comic character didn't have racist/jingoist/sexist/etc. origins? We've evolved, as has the medium and it's denizens. Using that as an excuse to not go full throttle on a character (whose supposed racist name was plastered all over print and television media) is lazy and lame.

As someone already mentioned they went all in on The Red Skull and no one blinked. Same with Thor. Yet somehow a middle-eastern terrorist with a Chinese sounding name wielding alien rings would have been TOO much. Right. Thank god they aren't doing an intergalactic A-Team. . .now that would be WAY overboard.

Undead Scottsman

Dude, spoilers. The movie isn't even a week old in the states.

Beezel

jdarksun wrote: »

Harry Dresden wrote: »

jdarksun wrote: »

ED! wrote: »

Thing is I totally figured that this would be ok because well, The Ten Rings was a terrorist group in the first film and so-and-so was never REALLY mentioned. But come on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV8H7kszXqo

is NOT what we got. I mean half the dialogue and shots aren't in the damn movie! I dunno. I'm just annoyed at this film. If I had no idea who most of these guys were I'd feel that this was probably one of the best things I had ever seen and MARVEL Films has done it - AGAIN! Up until

the big reveal I was all giddy like a school girl, pointing out all the touches that were true to the comics. And then it happened and I'm like. . ."The fuck. Are you serious?!"

Had they played The Mandarin totally straight I think the audience would have totally gone along with it:

The wormhole opened up a world of hurt, not the least of which were the literal Ten Rings for the mandarin to use. Or shit, tie it into The Red Skull opening a hole to Asgard if we need to make things chronologically cogent.

Don't though jam a major player in IM mythology into a recent story ark and waste a villain that'son the same cross-over level as Loki.

Regarding your first spoiler:

Every shot and line of dialog in that trailer are in the movie.

Regarding your second:

The Mandarin as a villain is racist as fuck. He's a Yellow Scare boogeyman that the comic book authors at the time cobbled together from pop myth.

...which is exactly what we got. A cobbled together pop myth. Except instead of being a Scary Asian Dude, he turned out to be just as hollow as the racist tropes that composed him.

You're using outdated information. Mandarin has been revamped numerous times in the comics so he's not a racist stereotype anymore. There's also the great version in Armored Adventures. So there's no excuse not to use him, especially when Red fucking Skull is right over there in The Winter Soldier. If he's not a racist stereotype anymore why not use him? They can do more with the character then what they eluded to in the movie with fake Mandarin, though that had potential being played straight, too. Just because Shane Black doesn't have the vision to update Mandarin doesn't mean no-one can. I'd love to see Whedon taking a shot at a serious Mandarin. The Shadow did an excellent adaption for Shiwan Kahn who was Mandarin-lite.

Dude, the very name "Mandarin" is racist. It's the title of a Chinese civil servant. It's like all the black superheroes whose name are "Black <something else>" just because they're black.

Could somebody, somewhere gold plate that turd? I guess, I don't really care. It's still a turd. And it was way more creative and interesting to turn this Eeeevil Yellow Scare into a puppet. Great fake out, nice job Marvel.

Not seeing what's racist about Red Skull. Because he's a Nazi and he's German?

"I wanted to call myself Supervolt. Black Lightning was Aquaman's idea. So I said, "Well why don't we call you WHITEFISH?""

Centipede Damascus

jdarksun wrote: »

Harry Dresden wrote: »

jdarksun wrote: »

ED! wrote: »

Thing is I totally figured that this would be ok because well, The Ten Rings was a terrorist group in the first film and so-and-so was never REALLY mentioned. But come on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV8H7kszXqo

is NOT what we got. I mean half the dialogue and shots aren't in the damn movie! I dunno. I'm just annoyed at this film. If I had no idea who most of these guys were I'd feel that this was probably one of the best things I had ever seen and MARVEL Films has done it - AGAIN! Up until

the big reveal I was all giddy like a school girl, pointing out all the touches that were true to the comics. And then it happened and I'm like. . ."The fuck. Are you serious?!"

Had they played The Mandarin totally straight I think the audience would have totally gone along with it:

The wormhole opened up a world of hurt, not the least of which were the literal Ten Rings for the mandarin to use. Or shit, tie it into The Red Skull opening a hole to Asgard if we need to make things chronologically cogent.

Don't though jam a major player in IM mythology into a recent story ark and waste a villain that'son the same cross-over level as Loki.

Regarding your first spoiler:

Every shot and line of dialog in that trailer are in the movie.

Regarding your second:

The Mandarin as a villain is racist as fuck. He's a Yellow Scare boogeyman that the comic book authors at the time cobbled together from pop myth.

...which is exactly what we got. A cobbled together pop myth. Except instead of being a Scary Asian Dude, he turned out to be just as hollow as the racist tropes that composed him.

You're using outdated information. Mandarin has been revamped numerous times in the comics so he's not a racist stereotype anymore. There's also the great version in Armored Adventures. So there's no excuse not to use him, especially when Red fucking Skull is right over there in The Winter Soldier. If he's not a racist stereotype anymore why not use him? They can do more with the character then what they eluded to in the movie with fake Mandarin, though that had potential being played straight, too. Just because Shane Black doesn't have the vision to update Mandarin doesn't mean no-one can. I'd love to see Whedon taking a shot at a serious Mandarin. The Shadow did an excellent adaption for Shiwan Kahn who was Mandarin-lite.

Dude, the very name "Mandarin" is racist. It's the title of a Chinese civil servant. It's like all the black superheroes whose name are "Black <something else>" just because they're black.

Could somebody, somewhere gold plate that turd? I guess, I don't really care. It's still a turd. And it was way more creative and interesting to turn this Eeeevil Yellow Scare into a puppet. Great fake out, nice job Marvel.

Not seeing what's racist about Red Skull. Because he's a Nazi and he's German?

He's a guy from China who calls himself The Mandarin. It is exactly like an American villain being called The Senator. It's not racist. Now, if he was called Yellow Claw, that would be racist.

Smrtnik

Joolander wrote: »

long shot, but I'm hoping

after suffering from his grievous bodily harm at the end of IM3, Aldrich Killian's Extremis powers go overboard in healing him and malfunction, giving him a giant head and the need to be supported by a floating chair

yes yes YES

wandering

I kind-of sort-of liked this movie. I feel like the Iron Mans have gotten better with each installment: the dialogue has gotten funnier and Tony Stark has gotten more vulnerable and human.

I liked the kid sidekick in this movie, and also the one in Warren Beatty's (underrated) Dick Tracy. I guess I'm pro-kid sidekick.

I did find myself getting bored during the grand finale and I wonder if part of that was that

it was an epic battle where the good guy army was composed of a bunch of empty robot suits, and who cares about empty robot suits? They can't die, they don't have feelings, they're not fighting for a cause they believe in, etc.

Also I didn't buy that Tony would blow up all his robot suits. It reminded me of that episode of Angel where Angel gets a magic ring that makes him invincible and impervious to sunlight and he decides to destroy it. No sorry that is not a thing that someone would actually do.

nightmarenny

jdarksun wrote: »

ED! wrote: »

Thing is I totally figured that this would be ok because well, The Ten Rings was a terrorist group in the first film and so-and-so was never REALLY mentioned. But come on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV8H7kszXqo

is NOT what we got. I mean half the dialogue and shots aren't in the damn movie! I dunno. I'm just annoyed at this film. If I had no idea who most of these guys were I'd feel that this was probably one of the best things I had ever seen and MARVEL Films has done it - AGAIN! Up until

the big reveal I was all giddy like a school girl, pointing out all the touches that were true to the comics. And then it happened and I'm like. . ."The fuck. Are you serious?!"

Had they played The Mandarin totally straight I think the audience would have totally gone along with it:

The wormhole opened up a world of hurt, not the least of which were the literal Ten Rings for the mandarin to use. Or shit, tie it into The Red Skull opening a hole to Asgard if we need to make things chronologically cogent.

Don't though jam a major player in IM mythology into a recent story ark and waste a villain that'son the same cross-over level as Loki.

Regarding your first spoiler:

Every shot and line of dialog in that trailer are in the movie.

Regarding your second:

The Mandarin as a villain is racist as fuck. He's a Yellow Scare boogeyman that the comic book authors at the time cobbled together from pop myth.

...which is exactly what we got. A cobbled together pop myth. Except instead of being a Scary Asian Dude, he turned out to be just as hollow as the racist tropes that composed him.

ED I'm sorry but

Kingsley's Mandarin was nothing like comics Mandarin either. He was described as an Ex-CIA who went rogue and turned into the Ultimate Terrorist with a Vendetta against America.

I guess I can see where you are coming from in that you wanted the Joker rip-off you were promised but when you try and say you are mad because its not like the comic it falls apart.

wandering

electricitylikesme wrote: »

I'll just say I was exceedingly happy to see a movie where in fact the trailer did not give the story away!

And really, I don't care about Mandarin being an overwrought middle-eastern-type terrorist. I greatly preferred the fact that instead he was manufactured by AIM - a think tank - as a reliable way to terrify the American populace. It was really great to see a major movie do a subtle callout on the modern American media like that.

I thought the scene where the Iron Patriot bursts in on an innocent middle eastern family's home, guns out, might've been a satire of U.S. foreign policy. "look at the U.S. bumbling around the middle east, getting innocent people in the crosshairs."

But then

a little later he bursts in on another home and there are a bunch of women being held hostage there, and they greet him as liberator.

nightmarenny

wandering wrote: »

electricitylikesme wrote: »

I'll just say I was exceedingly happy to see a movie where in fact the trailer did not give the story away!

And really, I don't care about Mandarin being an overwrought middle-eastern-type terrorist. I greatly preferred the fact that instead he was manufactured by AIM - a think tank - as a reliable way to terrify the American populace. It was really great to see a major movie do a subtle callout on the modern American media like that.

I thought the scene where the Iron Patriot bursts in on an innocent middle eastern family's home, guns out, might've been a satire of U.S. foreign policy. "look at the U.S. bumbling around the middle east, getting innocent people in the crosshairs."

But then

a little later he bursts in on another home and there are a bunch of women being held hostage there, and they greet him as liberator.

Remember though that

That was a sting by AIM to capture War Machine* so its no surprise that he is greeted with something he would appreciate and might drop his guard against.

Arch

I would have sacrificed a lot in this movie to get the Mandarin the way we did

As it happens, I did not have to do so

Which means I give this movie two thumbs up

There is a lot of subtle and not so subtle commentary in this film, and it is so much better for it. It really moves it from "dumb action movie about superheros" to "Action movie about superheros with critical commentary on united states military industrial complex/news media/foreign policy/etc".

I think this was the best Iron Man movie yet, and maybe even the best Marvel movie yet

mxmarks

nightmarenny wrote: »

wandering wrote: »

electricitylikesme wrote: »

I'll just say I was exceedingly happy to see a movie where in fact the trailer did not give the story away!

And really, I don't care about Mandarin being an overwrought middle-eastern-type terrorist. I greatly preferred the fact that instead he was manufactured by AIM - a think tank - as a reliable way to terrify the American populace. It was really great to see a major movie do a subtle callout on the modern American media like that.

I thought the scene where the Iron Patriot bursts in on an innocent middle eastern family's home, guns out, might've been a satire of U.S. foreign policy. "look at the U.S. bumbling around the middle east, getting innocent people in the crosshairs."

But then

a little later he bursts in on another home and there are a bunch of women being held hostage there, and they greet him as liberator.

Remember though that

That was a sting by AIM to capture War Machine* so its no surprise that he is greeted with something he would appreciate and might drop his guard against.

And even better,

Even when he's a liberator, he's STILL bumbling about it.

"You're all free now...um...if you wern't already."

He has no idea.

Kipling217

The Movie Mandarin

Is a non-racist version of the Mandarin, one that works too. Truth is every non-racist version of the Mandarin is one that removes him from his origin, because his origin is pretty racist no matter how you slice it. In the comics he started as a yellow peril villain wanting to rule the world because of his exalted lineage/race, revisions have toned it down, but its still the core of his character. Even Gene Khan in Armored Adventures had traces of it. The Movie Version just turns it into a joke, which is what any person claiming to be special because of their lineage/race is. The movie shows how constructed the Yellow Peril Villain is.

As for the Mandarin Rings, the Mandarin in the comics is best when he commands henchmen to do his dirty work for him. When he is the leader of a group. Having him use stolen rings to go mano a mano with Iron Man, just undermines the character, because its the ring that are the threat and not the Mandarin himself. Its a weakness of the original character too.

Dark Raven X

ED! wrote: »

The "Heroes. . ." line I am fairly certain was not in the movie. However my statement was more towards the sentiment that was being conveyed in the trailer - it is not even close to what was delivered. Oh Feige and the MARVEL-Boosters can get online and talk about how all this was some meta attempt at disinformation tying into the movie, but I'm sorry that's a load. The 2nd trailer is even more egregious in cut dialogue (which I feel at this point was never meant to even be included).

Yeah, agreed, the trailers were extremely misleading. Is that a bad thing at all though? You had people like me who felt they had been spoilered on stuff going into a movie with no actual foreknowledge and being totally surprised.

It absolutely was an attempt at misdirection too. There were no real shots of Killian, and Guy Pearce was saying in interviews how he had a "glorified cameo" on par with his screen time in Prometheus. Every single line was redubbed to alter the tone, making comedic moments dramatic and vice versa, (see trailer air rescue scene being absolutely relaxed, and throwing in an "oh boy..." compared to movie version's about-to-have-another-panic-attack take including "slow down, slow down" - Tony's long lonely trek through the snowy wilderness was a little hike through Tennessee. It's all gone to making you expect something the movie wasn't.

Not really sure what you're complaining about, other than you were caught off-guard and don't like it?

Quid

Nothing made me happier than the fact that the trailers are misleading. The movie in the trailers looked like a repeat of Iron Man 2.

Wearingglasses

Maybe (Re: SHIELD)

SHIELD goes down (again-ish) in the events of Captain America 2. It'd be funny.

Someone interview someone at Marvel and ask this already, I'm sure they're expecting this kind of question.

maximumzero

While watching the film I was bummed how little action there was in the suit, but reflecting upon it later, I loved James Bond-esque Tony Stark adventures.

ED!

Dark Raven X wrote: »

Not really sure what you're complaining about, other than you were caught off-guard and don't like it?

I think it was more a case of "We have a pretty weak main-villain storyline. . .so we probably need to focus on the real interesting bits" motivation for jiggering the trailers as they did. Because really I can't remember what Killian's plan was beyond. . .blow shit up and get back at Tony Stark for making him wait on a roof for an hour? Riveting stuff.

If you hadn't followed the production of the movie (and really is that a requirement now for films?) I don't see how its unreasonable to walk out the theater thinking "The fuck did I just watch. . ." It's not even about them hewing true to the origin story of The Mandarin (because really how could they), but more that the story that is suggested in the trailers is infinitely more interesting than the Hot Hands versus Tony Stark bit we end up getting.

DarkPrimus

Thoughts about the film:

I really liked how the movie played against my expectations, but it took Tony way too long to figure out the Extremis Bomb thing, because the audience was shown it during, what, the second reel? Also as hard as I'm trying, I'm having trouble remembering the lines i thought were so funny in the film, other than "You know how I know that? Because we're connected."

gjaustin

ED! wrote: »

Dark Raven X wrote: »

Not really sure what you're complaining about, other than you were caught off-guard and don't like it?

I think it was more a case of "We have a pretty weak main-villain storyline. . .so we probably need to focus on the real interesting bits" motivation for jiggering the trailers as they did. Because really I can't remember what Killian's plan was beyond. . .blow shit up and get back at Tony Stark for making him wait on a roof for an hour? Riveting stuff.

If you hadn't followed the production of the movie (and really is that a requirement now for films?) I don't see how its unreasonable to walk out the theater thinking "The fuck did I just watch. . ." It's not even about them hewing true to the origin story of The Mandarin (because really how could they), but more that the story that is suggested in the trailers is infinitely more interesting than the Hot Hands versus Tony Stark bit we end up getting.

The plan was there and wasn't something that could really be shown in the trailer

The purpose of the Mandarin was merely misdirection. He was researching Extremis, but was having "setbacks" that resulted in large explosions. In order to avoid taking credit for these problems, he created a terrorist to take credit for him.

His motivation was power, because he didn't want to be the abused anymore, such as by Stark, or ignored anymore, such as by Pepper.

But then, after the events of the Avengers, everything changed. Suddenly it was a world with Gods and Aliens and he didn't handle it that well. He snapped and decided that he should rule the world from the shadows.

King Riptor

I think I get why people are mad about the Mandarin Situation

I mean he doesn't say Not everything. Not yet like once. What the hell that was in every trailer also where was Batman?

nightmarenny

ED! wrote: »

Dark Raven X wrote: »

Not really sure what you're complaining about, other than you were caught off-guard and don't like it?

I think it was more a case of "We have a pretty weak main-villain storyline. . .so we probably need to focus on the real interesting bits" motivation for jiggering the trailers as they did. Because really I can't remember what Killian's plan was beyond. . .blow shit up and get back at Tony Stark for making him wait on a roof for an hour? Riveting stuff.

If you hadn't followed the production of the movie (and really is that a requirement now for films?) I don't see how its unreasonable to walk out the theater thinking "The fuck did I just watch. . ." It's not even about them hewing true to the origin story of The Mandarin (because really how could they), but more that the story that is suggested in the trailers is infinitely more interesting than the Hot Hands versus Tony Stark bit we end up getting.

And how does Kingsleys long indepth descriptions of being the Mandarin and Guy Pierce claiming to be a glorified cameo work with that? The entire advertising effort was jiggered to prep you for the film. To set your expectations so that the twists would have greater impact.

nightmarenny

gjaustin wrote: »

ED! wrote: »

Dark Raven X wrote: »

Not really sure what you're complaining about, other than you were caught off-guard and don't like it?

I think it was more a case of "We have a pretty weak main-villain storyline. . .so we probably need to focus on the real interesting bits" motivation for jiggering the trailers as they did. Because really I can't remember what Killian's plan was beyond. . .blow shit up and get back at Tony Stark for making him wait on a roof for an hour? Riveting stuff.

If you hadn't followed the production of the movie (and really is that a requirement now for films?) I don't see how its unreasonable to walk out the theater thinking "The fuck did I just watch. . ." It's not even about them hewing true to the origin story of The Mandarin (because really how could they), but more that the story that is suggested in the trailers is infinitely more interesting than the Hot Hands versus Tony Stark bit we end up getting.

The plan was there and wasn't something that could really be shown in the trailer

The purpose of the Mandarin was merely misdirection. He was researching Extremis, but was having "setbacks" that resulted in large explosions. In order to avoid taking credit for these problems, he created a terrorist to take credit for him.

His motivation was power, because he didn't want to be the abused anymore, such as by Stark, or ignored anymore, such as by Pepper.

But then, after the events of the Avengers, everything changed. Suddenly it was a world with Gods and Aliens and he didn't handle it that well. He snapped and decided that he should rule the world from the shadows.

Guy Pierce also was trying to push along the burgeoning superhuman arms race Thor inadvertently started which is another reason to create an impossible to find superterrorist that can bomb you from anywhere and leave no trace and even killed Ironman. Now don't you need Extremis to keep to safe from that impossibly clever Mandarin?

Harry Dresden

Kipling217 wrote: »

The Movie Mandarin

Is a non-racist version of the Mandarin, one that works too. Truth is every non-racist version of the Mandarin is one that removes him from his origin, because his origin is pretty racist no matter how you slice it. In the comics he started as a yellow peril villain wanting to rule the world because of his exalted lineage/race, revisions have toned it down, but its still the core of his character. Even Gene Khan in Armored Adventures had traces of it. The Movie Version just turns it into a joke, which is what any person claiming to be special because of their lineage/race is. The movie shows how constructed the Yellow Peril Villain is.

As for the Mandarin Rings, the Mandarin in the comics is best when he commands henchmen to do his dirty work for him. When he is the leader of a group. Having him use stolen rings to go mano a mano with Iron Man, just undermines the character, because its the ring that are the threat and not the Mandarin himself. Its a weakness of the original character too.

I disagree. The Mandarin's rings are no different from Stark wearing his Iron Man suits. Both men have access to advanced technology but their sources are different. Those rings are extremely dangerous. He's a threat since he's mentally controlling them. Mandarin is also a physical threat without the rings, too. IIRC he has super-strength that's enough to rip open Stark's suits like toilet paper.

Melkster

electricitylikesme wrote: »

I'll just say I was exceedingly happy to see a movie where in fact the trailer did not give the story away!

And really, I don't care about Mandarin being an overwrought middle-eastern-type terrorist. I greatly preferred the fact that instead he was manufactured by AIM - a think tank - as a reliable way to terrify the American populace. It was really great to see a major movie do a subtle callout on the modern American media like that.

Tots agree. When I first saw the trailer for this film, I was all like, "Really? The antagonist is a vaguely Muslim middle eastern Osama-bin-Laden-look-a-like terrorist? That's kind of exactly playing to what we're supposed to fear most as Americans, right? Is this supposed to be Iron Man 3: Zero Dark Thirty? And the guy's name is the Mandarin? Seriously?"

And then it turns out that it was completely made up by the real bad guy, who was an American. Perfect.

Melkster

Also, it completely baffles me that some folks didn't like the little boy in the film. I thought he was great. Probably one of my favorite parts, really.

nightmarenny

Melkster wrote: »

Also, it completely baffles me that some folks didn't like the little boy in the film. I thought he was great. Probably one of my favorite parts, really.

He and Stark and a very good repartee with each other. Both sides are very quick.

VeritasVR

I like how Tony parks his Iron Man suit outside the bar like people park their motorcycle. It's just chilling there, next to all the bikes.

Harry Dresden

VeritasVR wrote: »

I like how Tony parks his Iron Man suit outside the bar like people park their motorcycle. It's just chilling there, next to all the bikes.

Its a great scene but when I think about it feels out of place. At the time Stark was being paranoid and not trusting anybody so why would he leave something as dangerous as his suit outside when it can be stolen or hijacked by any roaming super-villains. Being Tony Stark comes with having powerful enemies and he's giving them an easy target to steal his suit.

ED!

gjaustin wrote: »

The purpose of the Mandarin was merely misdirection. He was researching Extremis, but was having "setbacks" that resulted in large explosions. In order to avoid taking credit for these problems, he created a terrorist to take credit for him.

His motivation was power, because he didn't want to be the abused anymore, such as by Stark, or ignored anymore, such as by Pepper.

But then, after the events of the Avengers, everything changed. Suddenly it was a world with Gods and Aliens and he didn't handle it that well. He snapped and decided that he should rule the world from the shadows.

Which is the laziest form of villain writing ever. Never mind that apparently most of this motivation is supposed to be inferred by the viewer (and not in a good way either).

It's not a bad movie. I just don't get why it's so beyond the pale to prefer the one suggested in the two trailers, which was clearly meant to get butts in the seat.

nightmarenny

No pretty much everything that's been said about the villain is in the film itself.

Though granted the movie exposites at a hell of a clip so I don't blame anyone for missing it.

I look forward to see this movie again because the jokes and lines cut so close together I'm sure I missed more then a little.

Melkster

Harry Dresden wrote: »

VeritasVR wrote: »

I like how Tony parks his Iron Man suit outside the bar like people park their motorcycle. It's just chilling there, next to all the bikes.

Its a great scene but when I think about it feels out of place. At the time Stark was being paranoid and not trusting anybody so why would he leave something as dangerous as his suit outside when it can be stolen or hijacked by any roaming super-villains. Being Tony Stark comes with having powerful enemies and he's giving them an easy target to steal his suit.

To be fair, he does kind of get punished for his lack of security precautions a little bit.

It's weird, on the one hand he's actually experiencing this deep anxiety, and on the other hand he puts on this public display of feeling totally secure.

Kipling217

Melkster wrote: »

Harry Dresden wrote: »

VeritasVR wrote: »

I like how Tony parks his Iron Man suit outside the bar like people park their motorcycle. It's just chilling there, next to all the bikes.

Its a great scene but when I think about it feels out of place. At the time Stark was being paranoid and not trusting anybody so why would he leave something as dangerous as his suit outside when it can be stolen or hijacked by any roaming super-villains. Being Tony Stark comes with having powerful enemies and he's giving them an easy target to steal his suit.

To be fair, he does kind of get punished for his lack of security precautions a little bit.

It's weird, on the one hand he's actually experiencing this deep anxiety, and on the other hand he puts on this public display of feeling totally secure.

Psych 101 Overcompensating for perceived weakness. Acting the complete opposite from how he feels.

Dark Raven X

Harry Dresden wrote: »

VeritasVR wrote: »

I like how Tony parks his Iron Man suit outside the bar like people park their motorcycle. It's just chilling there, next to all the bikes.

Its a great scene but when I think about it feels out of place. At the time Stark was being paranoid and not trusting anybody so why would he leave something as dangerous as his suit outside when it can be stolen or hijacked by any roaming super-villains. Being Tony Stark comes with having powerful enemies and he's giving them an easy target to steal his suit.

His security is all over the place, but I thought that's the point of his huge new range of suits - he's great at solving every little problem, but is totally failing to solve the big ones. Pepper's in danger, so he builds a suit that can fly to her and encase and protect her, great. Except falling apart by design also means falling apart when you ain't want it to, like it does all the time. And then there's that whole bit where it attacks Pepper while he's asleep, since it can respond to his thoughts - his solutions are cool but also half baked. He threatens a terrorist, gives him his home address and Maya is still able to walk up to his front door and ring the bell. I can totally buy that that guy would park his suit outside a bar. I'm sure it's locked, and it never occurred to him that someone could just pick it up.

gjaustin

ED! wrote: »

gjaustin wrote: »

The purpose of the Mandarin was merely misdirection. He was researching Extremis, but was having "setbacks" that resulted in large explosions. In order to avoid taking credit for these problems, he created a terrorist to take credit for him.

His motivation was power, because he didn't want to be the abused anymore, such as by Stark, or ignored anymore, such as by Pepper.

But then, after the events of the Avengers, everything changed. Suddenly it was a world with Gods and Aliens and he didn't handle it that well. He snapped and decided that he should rule the world from the shadows.

Which is the laziest form of villain writing ever. Never mind that apparently most of this motivation is supposed to be inferred by the viewer (and not in a good way either).

It's not a bad movie. I just don't get why it's so beyond the pale to prefer the one suggested in the two trailers, which was clearly meant to get butts in the seat.

Like nightemarenny says, it happens quickly, but it's all there.

Kipling217

Harry Dresden wrote: »

Kipling217 wrote: »

The Movie Mandarin

Is a non-racist version of the Mandarin, one that works too. Truth is every non-racist version of the Mandarin is one that removes him from his origin, because his origin is pretty racist no matter how you slice it. In the comics he started as a yellow peril villain wanting to rule the world because of his exalted lineage/race, revisions have toned it down, but its still the core of his character. Even Gene Khan in Armored Adventures had traces of it. The Movie Version just turns it into a joke, which is what any person claiming to be special because of their lineage/race is. The movie shows how constructed the Yellow Peril Villain is.

As for the Mandarin Rings, the Mandarin in the comics is best when he commands henchmen to do his dirty work for him. When he is the leader of a group. Having him use stolen rings to go mano a mano with Iron Man, just undermines the character, because its the ring that are the threat and not the Mandarin himself. Its a weakness of the original character too.

I disagree. The Mandarin's rings are no different from Stark wearing his Iron Man suits. Both men have access to advanced technology but their sources are different. Those rings are extremely dangerous. He's a threat since he's mentally controlling them. Mandarin is also a physical threat without the rings, too. IIRC he has super-strength that's enough to rip open Stark's suits like toilet paper.

Difference is that the Rings do not belong to the Mandarin. He did not create them, he stole them for a crashed alien space ship. Tony Stark designed and built his suits. the Rings makes him into a jumped up thug with stolen weapons. It reduces the implicit threat from a mastermind villain, to some lucky guy that stumbled on the discovery of a life time. As for his super-strength it is just superb martial arts skills that has been retconned down several times. Seeing a normal person punch through armor that bullets can't dent is stretching it a bit.

Tamin

ED! wrote: »

Dark Raven X wrote: »

Not really sure what you're complaining about, other than you were caught off-guard and don't like it?

I think it was more a case of "We have a pretty weak main-villain storyline. . .so we probably need to focus on the real interesting bits" motivation for jiggering the trailers as they did. Because really I can't remember what Killian's plan was beyond. . .blow shit up and get back at Tony Stark for making him wait on a roof for an hour? Riveting stuff.

If you hadn't followed the production of the movie (and really is that a requirement now for films?) I don't see how its unreasonable to walk out the theater thinking "The fuck did I just watch. . ." It's not even about them hewing true to the origin story of The Mandarin (because really how could they), but more that the story that is suggested in the trailers is infinitely more interesting than the Hot Hands versus Tony Stark bit we end up getting.

Killian's "plan" did not involve Tony Stark at all. Killian made a mistake - he attacked Tony's house after Tony threatened the Mandarin. If that hadn't happened, then Killian would never have bothered with Tony. But when the Potts fell into his clutches and Tony revealed that he was alive, he figured: hey, I'll try and blackmail Stark into fixing Extremis.

I didn't follow the production of the film. I watched the occasional trailer, but had actually forgotten it was due out until the day before. My reactions were mixed, but not along "the fuck did I just watch" lines. They ranged from "why didn't X happen" to "well, those trailers certainly lied to me. Hurrah!"

Let's look at what Dresden, who seems to be on your side, says

I disagree. The Mandarin's rings are no different from Stark wearing his Iron Man suits. Both men have access to advanced technology but their sources are different. Those rings are extremely dangerous. He's a threat since he's mentally controlling them. Mandarin is also a physical threat without the rings, too. IIRC he has super-strength that's enough to rip open Stark's suits like toilet paper.

Both men have access to advanced technology: Killian has extremis (advanced biotech).
Mandarin has super strength: well, Killian does tear open Stark's suits without much trouble.

Killian wears rings; has an obsession with Chinese culture; effectively created a leader-figurehead that he could advise; and calls himself the Mandarin.

You seem fixated on the fact that Kingsley was hired to play a character called "Mandarin", and are annoyed because that character failed to live up to your expectations. But the film, and the trailers, misled you - Kingsley was hired to play Trevor, while Guy Pearce was hired to play Killian / Mandarin.