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Iron Thread 3: Out Now! [Iron Man 3] (Use SPOILER Tags!)
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He will in a Shane Black movie.
I mostly didn't like the movie. Individual scenes were mediocre, and as a whole they were less then that. The villians didn't seem terribly threatening or hateable. Indeed the conflicts themselves didn't have any emotional impact on me, nor did Tony's struggle with anxiety, which only seemed to affect him when he wasn't doing anything too important. The extremis enemies I thought were not very good. All they do is get hot and move fast and be strong. Why not just fly around and shoot them? Why stand there and let them grab you, which apparently disables the suits and makes it impossible to use the other arm to shoot them in the face.
I know the movie was trying to make Stark seem all isloated. He has to battle -alone! But it didn't really feel like it. He gets attacked, then ends up in Tenasee, and works from there. Ok. Did he stay there because he was afraid if he went somewhere else he'd be found? Because he didn't have anywhere to go? Why didn't he try to get a hold of different suits of his? Or check up on Potts, for that matter. He spent all this time making homemade ninja gear (while driving from Tenassee to Florida, I guess?) when it really didn't seem like there was a dire need for it. I think the movie should have taken more time to portray Stark as being alone and without other options. As it was it just seemed like same old Tony, basically just doing what he wants and fuck everyone else, rather than being backed into a corner.
Not a bad movie, but I wouldn't watch again. I like Avengers a million times more. [/spoilers]
you know, the AI that would have to pilot the suits on the way there? also, his Mk. 42 prehensile suit is also broken at that point, so he can't just call it to him
For example,
Extremis can regenerate limbs, cure diseases, make people healthier, increase the production of crops and livestock, and generally make things better for all of humanity, and Pepper doesn't want to fund its research just because it can be used by the military? That's a really poor excuse.
Where exactly is JARVIS? It's a program running on a computer, where is that computer? Is it in the Mk. 42 suit? Is it in Tony's house? Is it in a satellite orbiting the earth? Is it distributed over a network? Why did it malfunction and how did it get better? Why didn't Tony focus on fixing JARVIS first since JARVIS can control an army of Iron Man suits.
Why did Tony need to charge the Mk. 42 suit with a car battery? He's got an arc reactor in his chest, that's how he powered the suits before. Heck, a major plot point in Iron Man 2 was how he was creating this special new element that would super charge the arc reactor so he didn't have to rely on palladium cores.
Why didn't Tony have JARVIS call the other suits earlier, like when he had to save the president? I know the entrance to the suit storage vault was blocked by the wreckage of the house but Tony could have told Pepper to focus on clearing the wreckage. Plus how hard would it have been for the suits to clear that wreckage? They had a hulk buster suit.
What is Killian's thing with Pepper? That was just random. Why didn't he have his extremis soldiers guard Tony instead of using non-powered guards? Heck, why didn't he inject Tony with the extremis too to give him more incentive to find a way to stabilize the virus? Or why didn't Killian take out Tony's arc reactor and replace it with a car battery to force him to work on extremis?
Why didn't Tony have more suits focus on attacking Killian? It seemed like the suits were occupied fighting the extremis soldiers but after they kill Killian, there were still like 10 suits flying around so clearly the extremis soldiers were no match for the suits.
A single hot touch from that one lady completely disables the Iron Patriot? But... why??? And did she just like... lug the suit to a helicopter and fly him back to base from Afghanistan? And it NEVER rebooted in that whole time? And if continual heating force opens the suit, why didn't she just do it there and then kill Rhodey, instead of transporting him directly to their SECRET LAIR?
After what happened to War Machine in 2, why wasn't Tony/Rhodey more strict about security on it? Why didn't Tony include a secret backdoor thingy that only Rhodey could get into in case of emergency?
Why are all the new suits 1000x worse than the one from 1 (much less 2) except for convenience? Like... the suitcase suit didn't pop off Tony like a pair of tear off pants with a single hit... What happened to the awesome lasers Tony had in 2?
Tony nearly solved things for Maya in 10 minutes, while drunk. WHY didn't she ever come back and say "I will pay you to help me perfect this,"? She didn't have a revenge reason like Adrian did, presumably.
Let's pretend like Tony having 40 suits in his basement doesn't make the entire second act a joke (we have to pretend that because it very much does). Why does it also seem like he's pretending to be broke? I mean, yes he buys things at the store, but like common household items. Why doesn't he pay for a supercharge for the Mark 42 with his hojillion dollars? Or buy the news van outright rather than try to sneak around and jack a signal? I'm not saying he needed to do those specific things, but there was ZERO story justification for why we were getting the "World's Most Wanted, Tony with only his worst suit, no friends, and no money" storyline when NONE of those things made sense in THIS storyline. I love how SHIELD seemingly has no interest in this super terrorist detonating bombs all over the US and threatening the President.
The last bit in Tony vs Adrian is when the Mark 42 comes back, post being hit by a truck. And we get the feeling of "thank god, he's still got ONE left". But then in the ending he (nonsensically) explodes the like... 10 suits that were apparently still there and functional. So... WHY THE FUCK did the Mark 42 need to fly a thousand miles when there were plenty of suits THERE that just weren't helping?! When he's trying to save Pepper, why didn't he ask for like 10 suits to jump in there and lift the block and all the others to run interference for him saving her?
So the VP is on AIM's side for two reasons: 1) he'll get to be President and 2) maybe Extremis can cure his daughter or granddaughter or whatever. Fine, that sort of makes sense. But wait, won't his first act as President have to be going full tilt into catching/murdering the Mandarin? How will that work exactly, as he'll be an abject failure as a President if he doesn't make any headway (presumably an unsatisfying and unwanted outcome for him), but catching them (while easy since he knows who they are) would impeach/jail him? And also, seeing as how he knows all about their evil plans, does he somehow NOT know that the explosions generally AREN'T terrorist attacks but Extremis fuck ups? And if he does know that, is he gonna just hope that doesn't happen to his grand/daughter? That seems... dumb.
My Band "The Wicked Girls"
"Both of your lists are really bad. Let me sort of half ass an iffy answer to one of the 19 things you said, and that'll basically destroy all criticism of the movie, right?"
I'm not trying to defend the movie against everything. There are some good points in there but frankly most is stuff we've gone over, is explained in the movie or is implied.
My Band "The Wicked Girls"
Edit: Wait, now I remember those guys seeing him and trying to kill him before that. Man, I really don't know. Movie was fun either way.
"Hey Jarvis give me a progress report of operation House Party"
"The cranes have gotten to the lower rooms and are near the door"
And then a later scene between saving the president but before actually getting to the finale where Jarvis interrupts a scene to tell them that the suits are free.
From this we can surmise that Tony knew because he was having it done himself.
My Band "The Wicked Girls"
Tony's anxiety related to being away from his suits can also be seen with how he built his last 45 or so models. They are all built to move remotely(so they can get to him), and open quickly(so he can enter a suit at a moments notice) but has caused a number of weaknesses in design.
My Band "The Wicked Girls"
But to that end, I am willing to forgive a lot of dumb shit for the sake of metaphor, because the acting and story at least made sense. The characters were likable, and more importantly believable. If you give this movie even a little bit of logic wiggle room, it is a really beautiful takedown of Stark's character and an interesting and realistic take on the canonical hero's journey.
Contrast to, say, Prometheus, where every single character is unlikable scum, the plot makes no sense and the metaphors are less subtle and more hammers. There the leaps in logic are like open, oozing sores.
In Iron Man 3, they are much more like dry skin- somewhat annoying, but easily ignored for the sake of the story.
Frankly I don't think I'm jumping through any hoops at all in logic. A movie should not have to spell every little thing out. I feel like a lot of people treat a movie not telling you something as a plot hole.
My Band "The Wicked Girls"
That does not make it a bad movie though.
Subtle... ah yes.
Back at nightmare,
I don't want to sound shitty there, so let me try again.
Iron Man 3 is the only film in current Avengers lineup of films (IM1,2, Captain America, Thor, Avengers) that does anything more than tell an entertaining story. It is the only film that attempts to really explore a character and how they personally interact with and deal with the world. It makes it vastly different in tone and execution than the other films, and it actually borders really closely on art house material ala Pan's Labyrinth.
Basically the movie tried to do three things- Tell an entertaining story about a superhero, deconstruct a character, and invert expectations whenever possible.
I think it did the first two well, and the third better than the other movies it can be lumped with.
This really was the Dark Knight Returns for the Iron Man franchise (that is, the only one that really had anything interesting to say)*
*my opinions on the Nolanverse may be different than other people's
Honestly I'm coming at these complaints because the movie directly tells you the answer and it frustrates me that so many people have come in here are offering the same criticisms that seem so obviously wrong.
It makes me angry and honestly I probably shouldn't have responded this time as I'm not in control and being more then a little short and flippant with people.
Sorry SHoe and King. I believe I'm right but I've been a bit of an ass because of it.
I think I'm out for the night.
My Band "The Wicked Girls"
Ok one more.
My Band "The Wicked Girls"
The only part of the plot that doesn't make sense is Mia Hansen starting with the scene with Pepper in the motel.
Everything else is either alluded to or outright told to you in the course of the film.
Complaining about things like "how did the suit parts fly all that way" is like asking how, in Eternal Sunshine, they can erase people's memories.
In an action movie with nothing else in it? Yeah, those can be valid questions and problems with the movie. But for a film that tried to be more than just "Robot guy fights fire people", it gets leeway with some things.
And, like nightmare said, most of the criticisms people have been posting are answered in the movie itself, albeit subtly.
And a large amount of the complaints with this film are of that nature.
either "They didn't explain!" and the answer is "yes they did, you missed it" or "I didn't think they needed to spell it out for you"
Weeeee!
-Actually, she says "weaponized" not "used by military." She was probably thinking more along the lines of what happens if some shithead terrorists or rogue nations get a hold of it.
-Remember that time in Iron Man 1 when he nearly died because the suit used up all of his juice? I'm guessing he doesn't want to repeat that. And given that the Mark 42 seems to have each componrant have a seperate powersource, it may be too much for his chest RT to handle. But I agree with his that this is kinda stupid.
-I imagine the wreckage crews couldn't get near there until after the police and federal officials were done investigating the scene of a suspected terrorist attack. Also, the larger suits may not have been able to dig their way out without collapsing the whole thing and burying the not-super strong suits.
-Pepper mentions she used to work with Killian and got asked out several times by him; plus the whole "trophy" thing they mention in the movie. And as for why not have Extremis soldiers guard Tony? Why? If he could have done something, he probably would have when Killian shot Maya. Killian had no way of knowing Stark had a mobile suit. Extremis potentially blows up people on injection, so if he wants Tony alive, that's a no go. And does Killian even know enough about Stark to know why he wears the arc reactor and how to circumvent it. Does he even know it's an arc reactor? (There may have been some newspaper clippings in Iron Man 2 showing off Tony's personal arc reactor, but I don't remember)
-Eh, given how fast those suits can be taken down, I imagine if Tony pulled off too many from the larger pack, they probably would have lost. Just because 10 survived doesn't mean 10 were superfluous. It just means they had enough firepower to stop the extremis soldiers before the last 10 of them were destroyed.
-The suit tossed onto pepper was the Mark 42 prehensile suit that Tony can remotely control. (He later tosses it onto Killian). He didn't have that suit for the beginning of that fight. The rest of the suits aren't coded to Rhodey because they're a bunch of random prototypes and experiments.
-IIRC, it wasn't a hot touch, it was some kind of electrical thing. AIM was the company that upgraded War Machine to the Iron Patriot so they either planted a way of deactivating him, or exploited an existing weakness. And really, they go through the trouble of setting up a trap for Rhodey, you don't think they have a way of transporting him around after that? Do you really need to see that? Also, the extremis soldiers seemed to be under the impression that heating the suit would damage it. It was Killian who decided do it, after being recommended not to.
-I imagine that Rhodey had some means of taking control of the suit (which is how he restarts it after he gets the president out of it.) The problem is, any remote access can potentially be hacked, so making a it so you can send a signal to the suit and take control is probably not a really secure idea for a piece of military hardware. Tony, of course, does what we wants.
-Because they're rapidly developed prototypes that Tony likely didn't really perfect, and didn't heavily weaponize, until moving onto the next suit. Though he never really went up against 3000 degree temperatures in previous movies so they may not be that as shitty as they look.
-Well, 1, Tony slept with her and left while she was sleeping. A lot of women take that personally. 2. She would pay Tony? Where are her funds coming from exactly and why the hell does Tony need money? She joined up will Killian because she needed resources, not because she HAD resources. :P She already showed Tony all of her shit, and he still took off. He obviously wasn't interested.
-He's trying to stay under the radar. A guy looking like tony stark buying a bunch of random tools is one thing, but a guy like Tony Stark running around and buying random shit like a crazy billionair does would basically be a big I'M HERE sign. And Rhodey specifically says in the beginning the US government took a black eye from the New York situation and were "calling dibs" on the Mandarin situation, as it were. Beyond that, there's no telling what resources SHIELD had available at the time to allocate to the situation. I mean, really, it amount to a bunch of mysterious, untraceable explosions; some super hijacking of airwaves that no one can trace, Tony's place getting blowed up, and Airforce One getting attacked with only Tony and Rhodey knowing where the POTUS was being taken to and who is behind it. (And the guy they tell, the VP, sits on the info.) Did we need to see a scene of SHIELD being able to do anything, or not succeeding in their investigation?
-Again, just because there was ten suits left doesn't mean those suits weren't needed where they were. Also, I never got a "he's out of suits" sense. Killian just kept cutting through whatever suit he was wearing and Tony was inbetween suits when the mark 42 showed up.
-Bin Laden wasn't caught on Bushes watch and he still got reelected. He just needs to appear to be making headway, and with Killian controlling the terrorist side of things, it wouldn't be hard to stage "successes" and whatnot. Dude just needs to win election reelection anyway, after that he's done no matter what.
Perhaps you didn't word this exactly how you would have liked to, but huh? I'd say "exploring the character" is ALL the other movies have done. Thor is about Thor starting as an arrogant A hole and becoming a heroic type person. Simultaneously, it delves into why Loki is the way he is and why he becomes an antagonist. Similarly, Captain America shows us how Steve is a good guy and how that becomes his strength and why he gains the admiration and loyalty of his allies. And I'm EXTREMELY confused on how the stuff like "The 60's Avengers" theme song at the end makes you think of an art house tone. Seriously, that's nuts. Instead, I would call it very similar to the flippancy of Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang but with a MUCH more inconsistent tone and less coherent plot.
I get that the director was trying to surprise us and to his credit, he did. Unfortunately, he was able to surprise us in many cases by doing something stupid and damaging to the narrative, so MAYBE surprise for the sake of it is not brilliant directing technique. A certain director of "What a Tweest!" movies is a relevant reference here.
Perhaps I should have said "the only movie that shows actual character growth."
Thor and Hulk tried to, and didn't really hit it (admittedly Hulk/Banner grow a lot in Avengers, so I might walk that back). Thor was poorly acted and even more poorly written, and the Hulk sailed on Norton's performance. Cap doesn't grow as a character so much as he proves himself to other people. Cap was a good guy all along, just no one believed in him. Cap didn't change at all at the end of his movie, and even after Avengers he is only really "less naive".
EDIT: Technically also Black Widow had a lot of growth and development between IM2 and Avengers, but I attribute that more so to her role in IM2 being stupid, and limiting, and a little bit sexist. She went from throwaway to important player, and I guess one could call that growth, but only in a technical sense. She should not have been in IM2.
Why people take notice of plot holes in some movies and not others is because of how much they like the movie. You aren't listing the reasons you don't like the movie, what you're doing is nitpicking a movie you didn't like. I'm convinced the reason a lot of people seem to not have enjoyed this movie is not because of these alleged plot holes, but because it didn't meet their expectations of an Iron Man movie. This was basically a full blown Tony Stark movie, much more so than the previous two.
I'm one of the people that loved it because of that.
This is exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you Hoz.
Stories are about resolving conflict more than just straight up "character development." Certainly it's great if your character changes during the story, but this change can come in many forms. For example, the character might start out the story with a certain view, waver about that view as the story progresses, and then decide to stick with it at the end. I wouldn't diss that movie for using that model (which is what I'd say Cap is doing). I won't argue about Thor, not because I agree but because the argument is unproductive (The acting is bad! No I think it's good. Well I don't think it is! etc).
Finally, I feel the whole thing about Tony "growing and developing" is somewhat confused.
(Perhaps the answer is: he will make newer, better Iron man stuff! Okay... then show us that. Such a crucial bit of the process is a little much to just have us infer. That's like hoping we would infer that he would date Pepper in 2, rather than stating it outright.)
If you want to talk conflict, that is still my point. Tony's conflict in this movie isn't with Killian, or the Mandarin, not really. The conflict was inside him all along!
Also, dead serious, this movie was the most accurate portrayal of someone with post-traumatic anxiety issues I have ever seen. It literally is "I am 100% fine and then out of nowhere something unrelated to anything makes me have a panic attack and I can't do anything anymore and am seeing things oh god why I can't stop why can't I stop someone help me".
Iron Man most definitely was keeping them apart. Did you forget about
Like, rational is the opposite of panic attack.
Spoiler tags since my arguments will often involve plot elements.
Secondly, being a publicly out Iron Man without actually having the suits is LEGITIMATELY dangerous. Like, every threat in this movie is resolved with a suit. The house gets blown up => the suit saves Pepper, then she saves Tony with it, then he calls it back to himself and saves himself with it. Tony assaults the house without a suit => he loses and is captured. He then calls the suit to himself and wins. The president is in trouble and they try to spread the intel to save him => this fails. Tony then saves all the people on the plane with the suit. Tony and Rhodey assault the base => they can't get anywhere near to help. 40 suits show up and make a distraction. The president is much easier to save because of his broken suit. Tony is only able to survive against the baddie (whose name I was getting wrong earlier, sorry) thanks to the suit. Finally, Pepper's hammer blow involves a weapon from the suit. And the fatality is the suit exploding. Out of ALL of this, Tony learns that he doesn't need Iron Man? Maybe his brain is more damaged then we thought... (To be fair, he does win the fight in the small town without the suit. To be accurate though, he wins not with all the sneaky environmental moves, but with two weapons from the suit though, so...)
Correction: this was a fantastic Shane Black movie.
The new suits are frankly pretty shitty and weak in comparison to his older suits
Why are the new suits so terrible?
Because Tony is under incredible stress and not working properly
And Tony didn't learn that he "doesn't need Iron Man" - it's pretty much the opposite what with him saying "I am Iron Man" as the closing line. He suicides the army of distractions, that doesn't mean there won't be any Iron Man suits in the future. Like, I highly doubt the order included Iron Patriot's detonation, for instance. What with Rhodey in it. :P
That's how 99% of movies work.
Furthermore, he can make new suits easily, he just doesn't HAVE to make them because of his PTSD. He didn't erase his server, so he has all of the data on all of the suits, so he can make one (or a similarly small number) of really good suits, as opposed to dozens of inferior ones, each one designed to tackle one specific insecurity. Speaking of his server...
Jarvis
Each suit can run Jarvis by itself, but is subject to damage or power loss, as seen in this movie. This malfunction does not affect Cloud Jarvis, but does affect Tony's ability to interface with it.
For convenience, Tony designed the program to be constantly streaming, so he can talk to House Jarvis, Suit Jarvis, and presumably Cell Phone Jarvis all without skipping a beat.
Just watch, in the next movie, the villian will be Jarvis, who attempts to become Skynet. That's what you get for giving an A.I. advanced cybernetic and robotics data: Terminators.
I strongly doubt Tony's suits can only communicate on EHF+ frequencies.