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[Mini-Phalla] of Brass: The Philosopher Kings (God Save The Queen: Cultist/Templar Win)

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Posts

  • jdarksunjdarksun Scion of Chaos Registered User regular
    I'm having a little trouble coming up with a counter argument. I know that i give my side a legitimate defense or suffer penalties, but i
    jdarksun wrote: »
    So, i have to argue against the goldenrod vote rule? No choice but to play devil's cultist's advocate here.

    DEFEND:

    I do not doubt that the spirit of this rule is good for the village. We know that the author is village, and we also know that a 3/4th majority is so high that it is impossible for the cultists to control.

    There are a couple points of contention in regards to its execution, however.
    -the 3/4th vote is restrictively high. Once a decision has been made by the first few posters, the rest will have little choice to follow. This biases our choices towards the opinions of those early posters.

    -With the absence of having a special to bring back, resurrection choice will be made based on favoritism and little else. I feel this would bias our results towards veterans, when we should be treating the newer players with the exact same amount of respect and inclusiveness.
    ATTACK

    -Your contention that a 3/4s majority is too high based on the phenomenon known as "sheeping" attacks the very foundation of Phalla itself; it asserts that there is no merit in the process of debate, which has been shown to be false time and time again in the nearly seven years this game has been played on these message boards. If there was no merit in the debate, the core mechanic of this play-by-post variant of Mafia could not exist. The attempt to swing opinion from one suspect to another continually provides evidence as to the nature of all participants, as it leaves a public trail of information that any player can follow. Hence the adage: A Silent Village is a Dead Village. When none seek to foster communication, the game's malcontents are allowed to more easily hide in the crowd.

    -The social aspect of Phalla is a core component to the game play, and the concept of "popularity" rarely exists without merit. Those players that gain a good reputation most frequently earn it. Let us take Langly as an example: he can be brutal and uncompromising, unerringly devoted to his goal in a given game. Anyone who speaks with him runs the risk of becoming another of his casualties, betrayed and buried along his path to victory. But regardless of this, people continue to seek his counsel. Why? Because, for one, he's affable. He's nice to chat with. His tenacity also makes him an invaluable ally.

    The very characteristics that make Langly excellent at this game have made him popular. In the face of such evidence, it is difficult to see ressurecting the favored as a negative to this proposal.
    DEFEND

    A small additional point:
    -Too many votes can contribute to information overload. We already have to worry about deeppink, darkcyan, red, limegreen, possibly dodgerblue, and so on...
    ATTACK
    -All data has the potential to provide valuable information as to the allegiance of the submitters of the data points. When dealing with data that is relatively straightforward to correlate, such as voting patterns, more is better.
  • jdarksunjdarksun Scion of Chaos Registered User regular
    I agree with ObiFett's opposition of Geth powers, so he gets my support.
  • Iron WeaselIron Weasel Totes not mafia, guys Oh shit, an awlRegistered User regular
    TRV, for the vote shift weirdness the other night.
    Currently Playing:
    Skyrim
    GT/Twitter: Tanith 6227
  • I needed a name to post.I needed a name to post. Registered User regular
    Debates close in an hour, vote in two.
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  • ObiFettObiFett Phalla Bounty Hunter Seeking ContractsRegistered User regular
    If geth agrees with a post, the owner of the agreed upon post gets a one-use vig. If he awesomes it, the owner of the awesome'd post dies. If geth is "watching" a post, the owner of the watched post gets a one-use seer ability. Users cannot have more than one ability given to them this way at a time. I challenge @Gizzy @ObiFett to argue against me

    Defending my position opposing the above rule change

    This rule has the unfortunate ability to expose village specials. This is due to the way the geth interaction works. Awesome means death, agree means vig, and watch means seer. Lets look at the list of possible player types and the reason they would or would not want to play this "Geth Lottery".

    - Vanillagers: Due to not having any powers, they will push hard for a Geth agree or watch and they will not care about being awesome'd because a vanillager death does not hurt the village. They have nothing to lose and will buy as many tickets to this Geth lottery as possible.
    - Mafia: Are most scared of death and will lay low to avoid being awesome'd. Unless they have a way to avoid rule changes. Either way this is likely a risk to them and will not be sought after as whole.
    - Village Specials: Already have a power and need to stay alive. Gain no benefit from this system and instead are punished. Their posting rate will drop.

    As a result, the mafia and specials will need to skirt inactivity. Since the mafia know who each other are, they will be able to determine who are most likely village specials from the posters who are on the lower activity scale. Therefore, this will give the mafia a smaller pool of players to choose from when hunting specials and will hurt the village.
    Phalla Bounty Board coming soon...
  • ObiFettObiFett Phalla Bounty Hunter Seeking ContractsRegistered User regular
    Geth agrees 8-)

    TRV
    Phalla Bounty Board coming soon...
  • ObiFettObiFett Phalla Bounty Hunter Seeking ContractsRegistered User regular
    :bz
    Phalla Bounty Board coming soon...
  • SLyMSLyM Registered User regular
    I find Iron Weasel[color]'s reasoning for his vote unsatisfactory.
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  • SLyMSLyM Registered User regular
    shit Iron Weasel
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  • The AnonymousThe Anonymous Despair. Registered User regular
    TRV makes sense, I guess?
    steam_sig.png
  • SLyMSLyM Registered User regular
    how about you tell us why, in your own words
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  • ObiFettObiFett Phalla Bounty Hunter Seeking ContractsRegistered User regular
    Debates are over, but I had this one on lock just in case...
    Defense of this unit's argument
    Result: The game played by meatbags referred to as "Phalla" wherein they try to compute to the best of their ability the outlying agents of chaos in their midst is one that is, according to recent holodata, stagnating a bit. Calculations show that ship rosters are taking longer to fill. Inactivity is at an all time* high. Meatbags have grown indifferent to having the same baked product rations over and over again. (Caution, do not view holofeed at work)

    Statement: This rule will provide new electrical input to the game capacitors, greatly increasing output and processing done. Multitudes will enjoy the scenario. The machine spirit will reach (possibly into) the hearts of many, and bring them its unerring judgement. Change is good approximately 71.27510285017519259127590% of the time. @ObiFett deliberately invokes the name of the dead German to invoke fear. I need only my autolaser. Comply with the new ruling or be dissassembled.

    * All time refers to the beginning and ending of observation periods by the unit making this posting, as best suited to help its argument

    Attack of above defense

    Assuming that the lack of activity and signups in phalla is due to lack of crazy mechanics is completely fallacious. Saying something doesn't make it so. And in fact, the most recent phalla have been some of the craziest games mechanics-wise. If anything, the crazy mechanics are pushing players away from playing due to distance it is mechanically from normal mafia. SaberOverEasy said it best in a PM to me:
    October 2012
    That's actually a really good point that I hadn't thought of. In terms of the the people, I think if we could get a larger pool to draw from, there would be less risk of people trying to over sign themselves up.

    Sad as it is for me to say, I think you may be right about the games being too intensive. It reminds me a lot of WoW raiding, some people really like throwing a bunch of time into something, fighting and failing a bunch and figuring it out. Others just don't have the time or the inclination. Even though they enjoy the game, it's tough to constantly be lapped by people who can just invest more hours into it.

    It also comes back to the hosts. To be blunt, a lot of host WANT to be the next big, cool thing. People go into hosting because they want to be known for it, like Edcrab, Blarnfindel, INANTP and you. All of those games have moving parts, so we all try and ensure that we have moving parts and interesting mechanics. On the other hand, there's something to be said for bringing things back to being a bit more basic and vanilla. It's simpler, easier on people's time and not as hard to get into. But who really wants to develop a vanilla game? Since phallance, there's only two mains that I'd really call "vanilla" (Xanth and Game of Secrets, possibly Phalla Wars). The mini's aren't much better, though we have been on a kick on fairly vanilla mini's lately (present company's excluded of course).

    It's an interesting question as to what is and isn't appealing. In an ideal world we have a more complicated and a more vanilla game both running for people. And we HAVE had people coming in. Just not at a large enough pace to keep up with people leaving.
    (bolded added for emphasis)

    So not only did you not prove that the lack of signups is due to a lack of interesting games, but look at the most recent list of Minis:
    and Mains:
    Bandwagon wrote: »
    Old Games
    1. Mill and Invictus - Experimental Phalla: Quirks of Fate
    2. Munkus Beaver - Knights of Arcadia: Underlund Aflame
    3. TheRoadVirus and GrimmyTOA - Journey: The Phalla For New Earth
    4. SaberOverEasy - Phallona
    5. enlightenedbum and lonelyahava - Phalla Arcade Expo
    6. Everybody (feat. SaberOverEasy, TheRobotVirus, Infidel) - The Fourth Annual(ish) Phalla Awards
    7. Capfalcon - Unknown Armies
    8. Assuran - Vampire: The Masquerade: The Phalla for Columbus
    9. MrBlarney - Skies of Phalladia
    10. lonelyahava - Blackout in Phallaville
    11. Farangu - 1984
    12. TrueNeverborn - Final Fantasy XIV: A Phalla Reborn
    13. mi-go hunter - Ikebukuro Rumble (Durarara!!)
    14. SaberOverEasy - The Phallympic Games
    15. lonelyahava - Game of Secrets (Thread 1)
    16. 38thDoe - E.V.O.: Search for Phalla
    17. Gumpy - Voyage of the 3rd Phalla
    18. Capfalcon - Xanth: A Phalla for Chamelion
    19. MrTLicious - Majora's Phalla
    20. Assuran - Phalla Wars[/color]
    21. ObiFett - Star Wars: [Phalla]nce in the Force

    Of those, only 3-4 can be considered vanilla-ish games. Most of them have relied on battle mechanics, hp systems, locations, and more. Phalla doesn't need more crazy mechanics to bring more players in, it need less crazy mechanics so our community can get back to the roots of what makes phalla truly interesting: behavioral analysis, human interaction, and diplomacy.

    Therefore, to claim that adding more mechanics into an already mechanic filled game will increase sign-ups of future games is patently false.
    Phalla Bounty Board coming soon...
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Sounds like I need to run a Vanilla Game.
  • AssuranAssuran Is swinging on the Spiral Registered User regular
    I propose that Special powers (i.e. Vig, Guard, Seer, ect) move to another person when the original person dies. I challenge TheRoadVirus to argue against this proposal.

    Support
  • TheRoadVirusTheRoadVirus Well then, no time to lose. I'm the Doctor. Do everything I tell you, don't ask stupid questions, and don't wander off.Registered User regular
  • AssuranAssuran Is swinging on the Spiral Registered User regular
    Premium is my choice for the day.
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Vote count?
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    Assuran wrote: »
    Premium [/color] is my choice for the day.

    @Assuran Premium is no longer among the living. But he was mafia so spot on.
  • SLyMSLyM Registered User regular
    why all these votes so bad
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  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts Registered User regular
    I'm going with The Anonymous tonight.
  • I needed a name to post.I needed a name to post. Registered User regular
    WELCOME TO LOW ACTIVITY META WEEKEND PHALLA

    vote close is in half an hour btw
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  • AssuranAssuran Is swinging on the Spiral Registered User regular
    Ugh, all right.

    So, that was bad and I feel bad. That's what I get for trying to vote off of lists from other people's quotes.

    Basically, I was going to vote for Ketbra, but then I looked at his posts for this game and didn't see anything worth voting for, so I'm back to square one.

    I suppose I'll vote for TA , instead.
  • PhyphorPhyphor Registered User regular
    Bah, TA
  • InvictusInvictus Registered User regular
    I'm usually always up for voting off TA, since he's always so quiet, but that's not actually true this game. A quick scan of his post history shows a dozen posts in this game. I don't want to discourage that. But unfortunately I've been spending today doing all the writing I shoulda been doing yesterday, so I don't really have an educated opinion about who to vote for.

    I guess I'm actually going to go with Iron Weasel, for similar reasons to SLyM: that's to say, IW is putatively offering reasons, but it's actually pretty hard to tell a story about how that 'vote switching weirdness' actually makes TRV a mafia.
  • I needed a name to post.I needed a name to post. Registered User regular
    The vote is closed.
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  • InvictusInvictus Registered User regular
    you around, Grunt? Who'd you kill?
  • I needed a name to post.I needed a name to post. Registered User regular
    Pop Quiz: What clarification has the village forgotten to ask?
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  • InvictusInvictus Registered User regular
    Ugh. ties, I bet.
  • ObiFettObiFett Phalla Bounty Hunter Seeking ContractsRegistered User regular
    D:
    Phalla Bounty Board coming soon...
  • kimekime Queen of Blades I am the SwarmRegistered User regular
  • ObiFettObiFett Phalla Bounty Hunter Seeking ContractsRegistered User regular
    D:
    Phalla Bounty Board coming soon...
  • I needed a name to post.I needed a name to post. Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Day 3

    “I am fine,” Arthur yelled – or at least, attempted to yell. A weak, shivering wheeze came from him instead.

    “You are not,” his companion insisted, attempting to get him to sit back down. “You've had fever all day, and been ghastly white. You are far from well.”

    “Get off me,” Arthur demanded, attempting to push him away. He failed, quite thoroughly. “I need to keep going.”

    “You can barely stand,” his associate insisted, “I will not permit it. Now lay down, I'm getting more tea.” When in the other room, he heard Arthur fall to the ground. Truth be told he expected it, but felt that the lesson had to be learned the hard way.

    When he returned to the room, uncanny panic seized him. Desperate he turned Grunt's Ghosts Arthur Norvulk over, wiping the bile drooling out his mouth. He tried, and he tried, and he tried to resuscitate him.

    He did not.

    Vice-Chancellor Daniel Mason shook his head, inspecting the document. “I think this is mad,” he told Passeridae. “Phyphor Braide Cobbler is a bright student, to dismiss her on this is foolish.”

    “So much fear,” he sighed wearily, “Everyone casts doubt on one another. What am I to do? There is so much suspicion that surely none of the accused can be accused. I must take the fearmongers from the school.”

    The Vice-Chancellor shook his head, placing the letter back down. “Richard,” he said slowly, “About this whole affair...”

    “What is it Daniel?” The Headmaster-King sighed. His weight sank heavy into the chair behind him. “I am so busy with this, so tired, and I must presume I have enemies around every corner.”

    “Have you considered that it might be about...your daughter?”

    Quiet as his shoes would let him be, the paramour delicately stroked SLyM Lillian Améry's cheek. Distant, but a fetching lass. In the chair across the room blahmcblah Vincent Calviera slumped. She could do better than him. Not much better, admittedly – not the paramour, certainly, but well enough.

    Still though, no matter how attractive she might have been, it was best to do her in. He procured the syringe, then paused. Either out of habit or to assuage his fears he lifted the covers.

    “Oooh not FUCKING AGAIN!” he yelled, and fled. He heard the sword bury itself in the door frame as he ducked through it.

    “What are you implying?!” Passeridae blustered, nearly yelling. “I will not have you tarnish-”

    “You know the family she married into, Richard!” Daniel Mason demanded, striking his fist into the table. “You can't ignore the reputation forever!”

    “She would have nothing to do with that nonsense,” the Headmaster-King snarled, “It demeans me to dishonor her to my face!”

    “To deny her agency in her own life is insulting to her in equal parts!” Daniel continued. “All choose their family, and she chose-”

    “MY ANNIKA WOULD NEVER CONSORT WITH ANARCHISTS!” Headmaster-King Richard Passeridae yelled. The gaslight lamp on his table, luckily unlit, fell to the ground and shattered.

    Vice-Chancellor Daniel Mason was quiet for a moment. “Then you were a father to all but her,” he said calmly, and turned, and left.. In the quiet of his office, Richard Passeridae buried his head in his hands and cried.

    Also KetBra Geoffrey Jerston forgot to breathe and died.



    Phyphor: Braide Cobbler (Professor Skinner's Drinking Buddy)Tied the vote
    Grunt's Ghosts: Arthur Norvulk (Vig)Poisonous Manner
    blahmcblah: Vincent CalvieraBetrayed!
    SLyM: Lillian Améry (Savant)Betrayed! and Penitence
    KetBra: Geoffrey JerstonDemocratic Failure

    @kime has received an inactivity warning.

    2/4 Metaphors Remain

    Debate Results

    ObiFett defeated TheRoadVirus in debate by 4 points. The proposal codenamed “Geth Powers” is nullified.

    Grunt's Ghosts The Anonymous is debating for the transfer of special abilities. TheRoadVirus opposes, and has first post.

    Lockeout is debating for a dodgerblue public seer vote. The Anonymous opposes, and has first post.

    Please do not begin debates until all PMs are out. Please do not discuss these PMs until they are all out. Upon all PMs being out, players are open to resume their expulsion, proposal, and support votes.

    Day 4 ends at 8 PM PST Sunday. Day 4 debates end an hour earlier, at 7 PM.
    I needed a name to post. on
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  • I needed a name to post.I needed a name to post. Registered User regular
    All PMs should be out. Which means

    DEBATES MAY

    BEGIN!
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  • kimekime Queen of Blades I am the SwarmRegistered User regular
    ObiFett mostly just as a placeholder
  • InvictusInvictus Registered User regular
    Apparently if you tie the vote, you die instead of the people who got the most votes. Not sure I've seen that variant before.
  • kimekime Queen of Blades I am the SwarmRegistered User regular
    Invictus wrote: »
    Apparently if you tie the vote, you die instead of the people who got the most votes. Not sure I've seen that variant before.

    It's happened before
  • LockeoutLockeout Anchorage, AKRegistered User regular
    Looks like The Anonymous has a lot of arguing to do.

    Third times the charm? TRV
  • AssuranAssuran Is swinging on the Spiral Registered User regular
    Going with the old standby, Kime is always evil.

    I'm still mad.
  • Iron WeaselIron Weasel Totes not mafia, guys Oh shit, an awlRegistered User regular
    It does seem a little odd that Kime is still alive.
    Currently Playing:
    Skyrim
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  • kimekime Queen of Blades I am the SwarmRegistered User regular
    I am invincible. Also people may be having pity on me since I haven't played much recently.
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