[Mini-Phalla] of Brass: The Philosopher Kings (God Save The Queen: Cultist/Templar Win)

I needed a name to post.

SLyM wrote: »

Also maybe it had something to do with the village having to change rules to win but the game lasted 4 days

The village hardly had to change rules to win. They had a guard, a seer, a vig. The mafia had no guards, and two kills. That is not absurd for a mini.

The Anonymous

kime wrote: »

SLyM wrote: »

Also maybe it had something to do with the village having to change rules to win but the game lasted 4 days

Minis should last 4-6-ish, so while on the lower end that's nothing really bad.

I'm not sure if I agree. If I hadn't double-tapped anyone, my Epiphany could very well have ended the game there and then. Although then I might've just gotten voted out instead so...maybe?

The Anonymous

Invictus wrote: »

@The Anonymous I'm really sorry about that. I was being pretty aggressive in order to shove attention more on you rather than elsewhere.

Nah, it's fine. You weren't the one being a dick about it, that was all me.

kime

The Anonymous wrote: »

kime wrote: »

SLyM wrote: »

Also maybe it had something to do with the village having to change rules to win but the game lasted 4 days

Minis should last 4-6-ish, so while on the lower end that's nothing really bad.

I'm not sure if I agree. If I hadn't double-tapped anyone, my Epiphany could very well have ended the game there and then. Although then I might've just gotten voted out instead so...maybe?

Well, normally you wouldn't get the chance to kill two people with your epiphany anyways, that was just luck

The Anonymous

kime wrote: »

The Anonymous wrote: »

kime wrote: »

SLyM wrote: »

Also maybe it had something to do with the village having to change rules to win but the game lasted 4 days

Minis should last 4-6-ish, so while on the lower end that's nothing really bad.

I'm not sure if I agree. If I hadn't double-tapped anyone, my Epiphany could very well have ended the game there and then. Although then I might've just gotten voted out instead so...maybe?

Well, normally you wouldn't get the chance to kill two people with your epiphany anyways, that was just luck

Fair point, though you still have to consider the absolute worst case scenario in designing games.

Because more often than not, they end up coming true. :P

The Anonymous

Hm. I don't see a mafia proboard link anywhere...

Langly

I can not believe no one asked where jdarksun and zombie Hero's debate went

jdarksun

Langly wrote: »

I can not believe no one asked where jdarksun and zombie Hero's debate went

Well, neither of us really wanted to bring that up...

Iron Weasel

I needed a name to post. wrote: »

SLyM wrote: »

Also maybe it had something to do with the village having to change rules to win but the game lasted 4 days

The village hardly had to change rules to win. They had a guard, a seer, a vig. The mafia had no guards, and two kills. That is not absurd for a mini.

No, but there was also the red and goldenrod kills that spiced things up. When you add in the vote and Vig, there were as many as 6 kills a night in a game with 24 players. Is that a lot?

This was interesting. I hadn't played a Seer before, and I was pleased to hit Premium on Day 1. However I felt that I had a responsibility to maintain a low profile, which is why I was not super active.

Well done to the cult on the nth mafia victory in a row and the latest in a series of steamrolls.

Thank you to INANTP for hosting.

Zombie Hero

The Anonymous wrote: »

Hm. I don't see a mafia proboard link anywhere...

jdark, you might be the only one able to unlock them. You are the only one listed under 'moderator' for that forum.

jdarksun

I can't do it from a mobile device. Will unlock when I get to a desktop.

Langly

jdarksun wrote: »

Langly wrote: »

I can not believe no one asked where jdarksun and zombie Hero's debate went

Well, neither of us really wanted to bring that up...

But that made you incredibly suspicious! You basically outed yourselves and no one cared!

Langly

While this was a high kill game, I don't think that's why the village lost.

jdarksun

Langly wrote: »

jdarksun wrote: »

Langly wrote: »

I can not believe no one asked where jdarksun and zombie Hero's debate went

Well, neither of us really wanted to bring that up...

But that made you incredibly suspicious! You basically outed yourselves and no one cared!

Yup.

Iron Weasel

I might be getting confused with when that debate took place, but even if someone had picked up on the jdark/ZH thing, we at most could have hit one of them last night and still been defeated.

The village lost for the same reason they’ve lost every game for the last few months – apathy.

Ironically, as long as the village continues to lose, villagers will continue to not care. Which is too bad.

jdarksun

http://ad-hominem-society.proboards.com/

MrTLicious

Thanks for hosting, INANTP. Once again RL kind of prevented me from going in after the first day, but that day was a happy one.

Can someone give me the cliffs notes version of what the village was supposed to do with the debates (other than get good rule changes)?

Iron Weasel

Well, if we’d been paying closer attention we might have noticed the mafia using one of their nefarious powers to mess with the debates.

But other than that, I think we were supposed to use them to try and get good rule changes.

jdarksun

It was a soft method of finding mafia on top of everything else. Suggest awesome rules. See who supports them, and who doesn't. I didn't track that information for a reason, I didn't want an easy trail.

Then, when the debates came up, see what the results were. Check for tampering. Check to see if certain people routinely got picked, or died when they didn't get picked.

The only limitations were imagination and village activity.

Megafrost

jdarksun wrote: »

It was a soft method of finding mafia on top of everything else. Suggest awesome rules. See who supports them, and who doesn't. I didn't track that information for a reason, I didn't want an easy trail.

Then, when the debates came up, see what the results were. Check for tampering. Check to see if certain people routinely got picked, or died when they didn't get picked.

The only limitations were imagination and village activity.

Or in my case, having every non-village faction pile on me day 1.

I must be doing something right.

The Anonymous

Iron Weasel wrote: »

I might be getting confused with when that debate took place, but even if someone had picked up on the jdark/ZH thing, we at most could have hit one of them last night and still been defeated.

The village lost for the same reason they’ve lost every game for the last few months – apathy.

Ironically, as long as the village continues to lose, villagers will continue to not care. Which is too bad.

Someone talk @Farangu into running another game. :P

Iron Weasel

jdarksun wrote: »

It was a soft method of finding mafia on top of everything else. Suggest awesome rules. See who supports them, and who doesn't. I didn't track that information for a reason, I didn't want an easy trail.

Then, when the debates came up, see what the results were. Check for tampering. Check to see if certain people routinely got picked, or died when they didn't get picked.

The only limitations were imagination and village activity.

That’s good thinking. But with the game over so quickly, I wonder if there would have been enough time for the village to get anything useful out of that kind of analysis. I mean, I expect that by Day 3 some actionable patterns would have emerged, but by then it was too late.

Langly

I think the mechanics of this game worked well, but that several of them would have been better served in a main (not that many people are signing up anyway), since they needed time to unfold. It took two days for a rule that won its debate on day 1 to be enacted, meaning that only day 1 and 2 would really have mattered, even had the game progressed one more day. The dead boards also would have benefited from more time, since as it stood they never got used.

The only other thing I can think that would have been helpful for people to track debates would have been an actual example debate, with how the debate was scored, put up in the day 0 narration. It seemed like people were a little slow in realizing exactly how the point structure worked in the abstract.

Gizzy

I wish I hadn't died - I wanted to debate! And I noticed the jdark/ZH thing but since no ghostly communication rules passed wasn't able to point it out

I also noticed from death that Invictus had a lot of time to debate - but no time for vote analysis. Very fishy!

Zombie Hero

GG got both Gizzy and Vertblah killed by making us think the seer was female.

Iron Weasel

The Seer was female. Sima Xue is a lady.

Zombie Hero

Well done, sir

kime

Oh yeah, I forgot, but thanks for running INANTP! Was fun

Zombie Hero

I'd really like to see a sequel to this phalla. I think the mechanics deserve to see a second go round, once the phalla population is robust again.

Edit: There wasn't really much analysis going on the village side. Pretty much day 1 over there for 4 days in a row.

Iron Weasel

Villager apathy has been a consistent problem for a while now. Was it Day 1 or 2 that more than half the players didn’t bother Supporting a debate?

I kept wanting to post vote records, but then I remembered that anyone who does analysis gets insta-gibbed by the mafia (I presume this is why Megafrost and jdark – among others – have drastically reduced the amount of vote analysis they do these days) and I figured it was more important to keep checking people out than make myself a target.

At least my mafiadar was working pretty well: I hit Premium immediately, then SLyM. Then I had ZH targeted briefly before ultimately Seering Phyphor (who died) at GG’s request. If the game had gone on I would have seered jdark last night (original target: Invictus).

And of course I didn’t need magic power to know that kime was evil

kime

Yeah, when no one else was supporting debates I didn't really feel a need to :P

SeGaTai

I'm glad that it was a mafia that tried to throw me to the vote and not actual villager analysis.

kime

SeGaTai wrote: »

I'm glad that it was a mafia that tried to throw me to the vote and not actual villager analysis.

Just so you know, I'd have betrayed the mafia for your victory condition if it ever came down to that

Zombie Hero

kime wrote: »

SeGaTai wrote: »

I'm glad that it was a mafia that tried to throw me to the vote and not actual villager analysis.

Just so you know, I'd have betrayed the mafia for your victory condition if it ever came down to that

I was under the impression that SeGa could win with the mafia, and i was willing to try and line that up.

kime

Zombie Hero wrote: »

kime wrote: »

SeGaTai wrote: »

I'm glad that it was a mafia that tried to throw me to the vote and not actual villager analysis.

Just so you know, I'd have betrayed the mafia for your victory condition if it ever came down to that

I was under the impression that SeGa could win with the mafia, and i was willing to try and line that up.

Yeah, I was under that impression too. But if it came down to me being the last mafia alive, and SeGa was about to win or already had, I totally was going to abandon you guys and go mad :P

SeGaTai

Yea for awhile I was concerned that I couldn't just win with the mafia but once learning that the sun cult existed(after my death) I figured I could have. Not sure how many scenarios could have played out that would have had me not trying to side with the mafia. Kime counted as mad for my victory count so offering him to the village wouldn't have helped me out.

Invictus

Thoughts on the debates:

it was always going to be very hard for any proposal to pass, because the person arguing for the proposal had the burden of proof (the other person won ties), but the person arguing against the proposal went first. That means that if the defender starts with a defense then just uses attacks, the person arguing for the proposal is always playing catch-up.

Note that what I've said is true even if the proposition side has philosophies and teacher's pets and the opposition does not.

Iron Weasel

I’d be curious to know if that was a deliberate design choice, and if so how it fits with INANTP’s stated desire that people play to their Philosophies and Teacher’s Pets to win debates.

I think this was a really neat twist on the Battle concept and would like to see it again.

Invictus

Honestly, at the time I understood it to be a design choice made in order to make the debates an information-gathering mechanic instead of a proper rule-change mechanic, but with the added bonus of sometimes, under some circumstances, you get a rulechange!

Invictus

Also, of course, I hope this was clear but I enjoyed the fuck out of this game. Thanks, INANTP!