Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.

Ho! Ha ha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust! [Chat]!

12425272930100

Posts

  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    chu, spool

    you both need to state your irony levels, now

    huh?

    how serious are you both about support for israel

    i think talking about my position on the israeli-palestinian conflict is meaningless in these terms

    it is not really reducible in that way to me how it seems to be to the international community

    supporting israel isn't just supporting their side in that conflict

    that is sort of my point? anyone who isn't

    1) a 63 year old evangelical
    2) a smarmy hillel kid
    3) a religious extremist

    will say there is some deplorable shit going on in the Territories

    but that is not any sort of comprehensive consensus from which one can leap to 'you can't possibly support israel can you'

    granular terms are necessary
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    chu, spool

    you both need to state your irony levels, now

    This should be a thing.

    Like in a heated discussion where you're not sure who's being serious or not you should be like

    IRONY CHECK

    And then everyone has to report their current irony levels like so:

    [********---]
    7/10 Ironies

    @Icyliquid

    I would like to be able to query Geth about someone's sarcasm level and have him report back a number.

    I don't really care what that number is or where it falls on a particular scale.

    Geth, check sarcasm level of @Abdhyius

    SARCASM LEVEL CURRENTLY 8.935 AND FALLING.
    Successful Kickstarter get! Drop by Bare Mettle Entertainment if you'd like to see what we're making.
  • Solomaxwell6Solomaxwell6 Registered User regular
    The us prison population statistic is bullshit and is around because other countries lie and because of dumb statistics. Chinas official figure is that they have one of the lowest incarceration rates in the world (bullshit) and north Korea doesn't include their political prisoner camps (they're actually well ahead of us per capita).

    well that sure is fab that we might be doing better than north korea and china with regard to how many of our citizens we imprison

    I'm not trying to argue that the US is a utopia.

    But any time statistics can possibly be at all manipulated and/or faked to make the US seem more awful than it actually is? Yeah, someone will go ahead and do so. There are at least a handful of countries that are worse off than the US but are hidden behind stupid statistics. And most shitty third world dictatorships simply don't have the resources to lock up as many people as they might want so you can't even compare them to the US.

    The US should work to improve the justice system, but let's not spread bullshit.

    we're the goddamn united states

    that we are even being compared to these countries should reveal something to you

    we shouldn't win by a technicality in this category, or be better than a handful of some of the governments with the worst human rights records on the planet

    I don't think "the whole statistic hinges on using made up numbers" is a technicality.

    But that's not the point. When you want to criticize the US, do so. But use actual figures, actual numbers. Use facts. Use logic. Claiming that the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world is smug "America is awful because America" bullshit. We can look at the US incarceration rate and see that it is in fact very high and ask ourselves why it's so high and what we can do to lower it. But throwing in "the US has a higher proportion of its population in prison than North Korea!" just taints the argument.

    fine. america has lower incarceration rates than dictatorships and oligarchies that brutally repress dissidents

    but not many of them, because we're (almost!) the worst

    land of the freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    EagleCrying.jpg

    See, I don't think you're actually reading anything I'm saying.

    I'm not defending America. I'm saying using bullshit statistics is bullshit and let's fucking quit it.
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    My outlook is directly a result of hearing about good stuff and bad stuff. I have heard more bad stuff. If the amount of bad stuff is over represented, which is possible, then I need to balance what passes through my filter. But I don't know how to find more good stuff.

    How do I find enough good stuff so that Africa, China and the middle east no longer compose a significant percentage of the world's state.

    It is 100%, absolutely the case that bad stuff is over-represented.

    Srsly brah watch the video on this site

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/nov/19/better-angels-nature-steven-pinker-review

    Yes I am aware of what the balance probably is, but I still need more. I need some way of comparing the good and the bad so that the bad is less significant.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKWoPlL2B8I
    xlh6c3.png
  • SarksusSarksus TEN FUCKING DOLLARS Registered User regular
    Arrested Development doesn't seem suited to trailers.
  • Ravenhpltc24Ravenhpltc24 Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    oh and that was SARCASM

    I hate you right now.

    REVENGE, SWEET REVENGE!!! :twisted:

    revenge for what!

    There was a time, not long ago, when I had to write a horrible essay all night and you were like well 'Imma go get drunk and have sex with sexy ladies.' and I was all BUT I WANT THAT!
    Cinders wrote: »
    Wait, it's all streaming at once?

    Yeah, that's the Netflix way! It kind of takes some of the fun out of watching a show every week and talking about it with your friends at work/school the day after, but at least you can enjoy them at your own pace.
    (V) ( ;,,; ) (V)
  • simonwolfsimonwolf Registered User regular
    I think an irony detector in chat would work about as well as that sarcasm detector on the Simpsons
    turtlesig.jpg
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    chu, spool

    you both need to state your irony levels, now

    huh?

    how serious are you both about support for israel

    i think talking about my position on the israeli-palestinian conflict is meaningless in these terms

    it is not really reducible in that way to me how it seems to be to the international community

    supporting israel isn't just supporting their side in that conflict

    that is sort of my point? anyone who isn't

    1) a 63 year old evangelical
    2) a smarmy hillel kid
    3) a religious extremist

    will say there is some deplorable shit going on in the Territories

    but that is not any sort of comprehensive consensus from which one can leap to 'you can't possibly support israel can you'

    granular terms are necessary

    yeah but you're usually just this vague and deflecting when it comes to your feelings on the matter :P
    xlh6c3.png
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    Corehealer wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Corehealer wrote: »
    I find cherry picking ideas from different religions and remaining spiritual in the sense of believing in something more then myself, whether that be a God or just another layer of existence beyond our own and being in harmony with it, to be preferable to being agnostic (which I look at as lazy) atheist (which is what I would be if I chose to no longer be a deist and is of course filled with it's own pros and cons) or part of an organized religious framework (lots of obvious cons there).

    I grew up Catholic with my grandparents on my mother's side being devout United Church members and after going through that tension between them and the hilariously bad attempts by Catholic run schools to teach me how to live and think about stuff like abortion and gays, I flirted with Buddhism for a while before deciding to just throw up my hands, screw the middle man and commit myself to believing whatever I wanted to believe and felt was the right course for my philosophical and spiritual life.

    I could never see myself staying a Catholic after I gave it a fair shake and read the Catechism and the Bible and even considered giving the priesthood a look after being an altar boy when I was younger. There was just too many questions that my religion teacher in high school would answer with "God will sort it out" and too much BS when it came to moral questions. I am fortunate I guess in that my immediate family was never very religious, but even if they were, I can't see myself accepting it forever.

    ahah!

    atheist versus agnostic now there's something I could talk about.

    But won't.

    anyway if someone asks I'll say atheist even though I'm technically agnostic. Since people think they mean what you seem to think they mean :P

    I prefer to assume agnostic from the onset is lazy, because I know people who use it as a way to avoid the whole religion versus atheism debate altogether and avoid conflict. I tend gauge how much a person has actually thought about said position and then decide later if I found it acceptably thought out.

    Agnostic on it's own is still a valid stance; you can never truly prove whether there is a God, personal or something else, or there isn't one, and that kind of thing can lead people to the conclusion that they admit ignorance (as any good Socratic thinker should) and will simply let death tell them if there is one or not later.

    for me this ties to what I was saying to Loren; i don't abide beliefs I consider meritless for me or without value in my life.

    "proof" one way or the other on this issue, isn't important to me, as is so readily and astutely observed such proof is objectively lacking in either direction. there's only intuition and deductive reasoning, oft terrible bedfellows really

    but does it matter? well, for me it does. my universe, my view of my life, my perspective on the world, is bettered for me by way of believing there is no god or gods. so, that is what i opt to believe. in lieu of conclusive evidence one way or the other, i go with the belief that meaningfully harms none and meaningfully aids me.

    when others do the same, and yet come to a different belief or conclusion, but based on the same criteria?

    i don't really fault them that, and i gain nothing from trying to "prove" to them I'm right, because the truth is, objectively

    there's no way for my living mind to know

    so i take it as an article of faith instead, and being thus don't care the begrudge people their own articles of faith that view differently, so long as the consequences of their beliefs don't run afoul of what i consider important in life

    based from the same criteria, ok, but what about not based on the same criteria at all?

    the criteria I am talking about here is the criteria of "good for me, doesn't hurt anybody else"

    if a Christian, for example, operates the practice of their faith and the profession of their beliefs based on that... I don't have any problem with them and they can do as they please.

    If a person can't help but run afoul of that very simplistic, consequentialist criteria then no

    i don't have a great deal of tolerance for it

    if a person's beliefs hinge on fucking other people over and doesn't really pay heed to what benefit it's actually bringing to their life

    i have a problem with that

    i think that's reasonable, personally

    it's one of those "your right to swing your arm ends where my face begins" type things
  • Ravenhpltc24Ravenhpltc24 Registered User regular
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Arrested Development doesn't seem suited to trailers.

    I must agree. Although it made me very excited all the same, glad to see so many of the old favorites are returning.
    (V) ( ;,,; ) (V)
  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    My outlook is directly a result of hearing about good stuff and bad stuff. I have heard more bad stuff. If the amount of bad stuff is over represented, which is possible, then I need to balance what passes through my filter. But I don't know how to find more good stuff.

    How do I find enough good stuff so that Africa, China and the middle east no longer compose a significant percentage of the world's state.

    It is 100%, absolutely the case that bad stuff is over-represented.

    Srsly brah watch the video on this site

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/nov/19/better-angels-nature-steven-pinker-review

    Yes I am aware of what the balance probably is, but I still need more. I need some way of comparing the good and the bad so that the bad is less significant.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_GxXRbSFDg
    _J_ wrote:
    If we only allowed pedophiles to be parents, then we would never have to worry about children being left alone, unwatched.
    XBL: Fanatical One AIM: itskagera
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    oh and that was SARCASM

    I hate you right now.

    REVENGE, SWEET REVENGE!!! :twisted:

    revenge for what!

    There was a time, not long ago, when I had to write a horrible essay all night and you were like well 'Imma go get drunk and have sex with sexy ladies.' and I was all BUT I WANT THAT!
    Cinders wrote: »
    Wait, it's all streaming at once?

    Yeah, that's the Netflix way! It kind of takes some of the fun out of watching a show every week and talking about it with your friends at work/school the day after, but at least you can enjoy them at your own pace.

    okay I'll grant you this then.
    xlh6c3.png
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary Your Dark Descent FriendRegistered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    chu, spool

    you both need to state your irony levels, now

    huh?

    how serious are you both about support for israel

    i think talking about my position on the israeli-palestinian conflict is meaningless in these terms

    it is not really reducible in that way to me how it seems to be to the international community

    supporting israel isn't just supporting their side in that conflict

    I'd support Israel wholeheartedly if they actually gave a shit about the Palestinians and stopped with the bullshit settlements. But I know full well, as much as a person who has not been there can possibly know short of going there, that it's vastly more complicated and that, in this case, both sides are very much at fault here, even with the Israelis holding the upper hand. And I know the peace process is essentially dying and that ultimately it's going to be either ethnic genocide or a very big turnaround in Israeli politics that will be needed before anything changes.

    It's the world's biggest shit sandwich.
    2ItqRJ7.jpgSteam/Origin/PSN: Corehealer / Core's Streamtastical Livestream (Streaming Wildstar Beta later this year).
  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    chu, spool

    you both need to state your irony levels, now

    huh?

    how serious are you both about support for israel

    i think talking about my position on the israeli-palestinian conflict is meaningless in these terms

    it is not really reducible in that way to me how it seems to be to the international community

    supporting israel isn't just supporting their side in that conflict

    that is sort of my point? anyone who isn't

    1) a 63 year old evangelical
    2) a smarmy hillel kid
    3) a religious extremist

    will say there is some deplorable shit going on in the Territories

    but that is not any sort of comprehensive consensus from which one can leap to 'you can't possibly support israel can you'

    granular terms are necessary

    yeah but you're usually just this vague and deflecting when it comes to your feelings on the matter :P

    why are you being rude?

    i have directly criticized israel. i have made threads about israel, criticizing things about it.

    i don't know why you think it's ok to say this about something that is obviously emotionally important to me.
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Registered User regular
    The us prison population statistic is bullshit and is around because other countries lie and because of dumb statistics. Chinas official figure is that they have one of the lowest incarceration rates in the world (bullshit) and north Korea doesn't include their political prisoner camps (they're actually well ahead of us per capita).

    well that sure is fab that we might be doing better than north korea and china with regard to how many of our citizens we imprison

    I'm not trying to argue that the US is a utopia.

    But any time statistics can possibly be at all manipulated and/or faked to make the US seem more awful than it actually is? Yeah, someone will go ahead and do so. There are at least a handful of countries that are worse off than the US but are hidden behind stupid statistics. And most shitty third world dictatorships simply don't have the resources to lock up as many people as they might want so you can't even compare them to the US.

    The US should work to improve the justice system, but let's not spread bullshit.

    we're the goddamn united states

    that we are even being compared to these countries should reveal something to you

    we shouldn't win by a technicality in this category, or be better than a handful of some of the governments with the worst human rights records on the planet

    I don't think "the whole statistic hinges on using made up numbers" is a technicality.

    But that's not the point. When you want to criticize the US, do so. But use actual figures, actual numbers. Use facts. Use logic. Claiming that the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world is smug "America is awful because America" bullshit. We can look at the US incarceration rate and see that it is in fact very high and ask ourselves why it's so high and what we can do to lower it. But throwing in "the US has a higher proportion of its population in prison than North Korea!" just taints the argument.

    fine. america has lower incarceration rates than dictatorships and oligarchies that brutally repress dissidents

    but not many of them, because we're (almost!) the worst

    land of the freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    EagleCrying.jpg

    See, I don't think you're actually reading anything I'm saying.

    I'm not defending America. I'm saying using bullshit statistics is bullshit and let's fucking quit it.

    i don't think there's a significant difference between 'we're the worst' and 'we are among the worst of the worst' in this situation

    it's still true that we have the highest documented rate of incarceration, which means, as you said, we have the highest rate among countries that dont lie

    which is pretty much being the worst. at least to me.
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary Your Dark Descent FriendRegistered User regular
    I couldn't bear to watch someone kill themselves, especially after all the struggles I had with my demons in that regard earlier in life.
    2ItqRJ7.jpgSteam/Origin/PSN: Corehealer / Core's Streamtastical Livestream (Streaming Wildstar Beta later this year).
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Pony wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    Corehealer wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Corehealer wrote: »
    I find cherry picking ideas from different religions and remaining spiritual in the sense of believing in something more then myself, whether that be a God or just another layer of existence beyond our own and being in harmony with it, to be preferable to being agnostic (which I look at as lazy) atheist (which is what I would be if I chose to no longer be a deist and is of course filled with it's own pros and cons) or part of an organized religious framework (lots of obvious cons there).

    I grew up Catholic with my grandparents on my mother's side being devout United Church members and after going through that tension between them and the hilariously bad attempts by Catholic run schools to teach me how to live and think about stuff like abortion and gays, I flirted with Buddhism for a while before deciding to just throw up my hands, screw the middle man and commit myself to believing whatever I wanted to believe and felt was the right course for my philosophical and spiritual life.

    I could never see myself staying a Catholic after I gave it a fair shake and read the Catechism and the Bible and even considered giving the priesthood a look after being an altar boy when I was younger. There was just too many questions that my religion teacher in high school would answer with "God will sort it out" and too much BS when it came to moral questions. I am fortunate I guess in that my immediate family was never very religious, but even if they were, I can't see myself accepting it forever.

    ahah!

    atheist versus agnostic now there's something I could talk about.

    But won't.

    anyway if someone asks I'll say atheist even though I'm technically agnostic. Since people think they mean what you seem to think they mean :P

    I prefer to assume agnostic from the onset is lazy, because I know people who use it as a way to avoid the whole religion versus atheism debate altogether and avoid conflict. I tend gauge how much a person has actually thought about said position and then decide later if I found it acceptably thought out.

    Agnostic on it's own is still a valid stance; you can never truly prove whether there is a God, personal or something else, or there isn't one, and that kind of thing can lead people to the conclusion that they admit ignorance (as any good Socratic thinker should) and will simply let death tell them if there is one or not later.

    for me this ties to what I was saying to Loren; i don't abide beliefs I consider meritless for me or without value in my life.

    "proof" one way or the other on this issue, isn't important to me, as is so readily and astutely observed such proof is objectively lacking in either direction. there's only intuition and deductive reasoning, oft terrible bedfellows really

    but does it matter? well, for me it does. my universe, my view of my life, my perspective on the world, is bettered for me by way of believing there is no god or gods. so, that is what i opt to believe. in lieu of conclusive evidence one way or the other, i go with the belief that meaningfully harms none and meaningfully aids me.

    when others do the same, and yet come to a different belief or conclusion, but based on the same criteria?

    i don't really fault them that, and i gain nothing from trying to "prove" to them I'm right, because the truth is, objectively

    there's no way for my living mind to know

    so i take it as an article of faith instead, and being thus don't care the begrudge people their own articles of faith that view differently, so long as the consequences of their beliefs don't run afoul of what i consider important in life

    based from the same criteria, ok, but what about not based on the same criteria at all?

    the criteria I am talking about here is the criteria of "good for me, doesn't hurt anybody else"

    if a Christian, for example, operates the practice of their faith and the profession of their beliefs based on that... I don't have any problem with them and they can do as they please.

    If a person can't help but run afoul of that very simplistic, consequentialist criteria then no

    i don't have a great deal of tolerance for it

    if a person's beliefs hinge on fucking other people over and doesn't really pay heed to what benefit it's actually bringing to their life

    i have a problem with that

    i think that's reasonable, personally

    it's one of those "your right to swing your arm ends where my face begins" type things

    I sorta agree

    kinda

    ish
    xlh6c3.png
  • simonwolfsimonwolf Registered User regular
    Corehealer wrote: »
    I couldn't bear to watch someone kill themselves, especially after all the struggles I had with my demons in that regard earlier in life.

    This is probably a good indication that you are still human, yes
    turtlesig.jpg
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    chu, spool

    you both need to state your irony levels, now

    huh?

    how serious are you both about support for israel

    i think talking about my position on the israeli-palestinian conflict is meaningless in these terms

    it is not really reducible in that way to me how it seems to be to the international community

    supporting israel isn't just supporting their side in that conflict

    that is sort of my point? anyone who isn't

    1) a 63 year old evangelical
    2) a smarmy hillel kid
    3) a religious extremist

    will say there is some deplorable shit going on in the Territories

    but that is not any sort of comprehensive consensus from which one can leap to 'you can't possibly support israel can you'

    granular terms are necessary

    yeah but you're usually just this vague and deflecting when it comes to your feelings on the matter :P

    why are you being rude?

    i have directly criticized israel. i have made threads about israel, criticizing things about it.

    i don't know why you think it's ok to say this about something that is obviously emotionally important to me.

    I don't know what you think I said, here.
    xlh6c3.png
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary Your Dark Descent FriendRegistered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    Corehealer wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Corehealer wrote: »
    I find cherry picking ideas from different religions and remaining spiritual in the sense of believing in something more then myself, whether that be a God or just another layer of existence beyond our own and being in harmony with it, to be preferable to being agnostic (which I look at as lazy) atheist (which is what I would be if I chose to no longer be a deist and is of course filled with it's own pros and cons) or part of an organized religious framework (lots of obvious cons there).

    I grew up Catholic with my grandparents on my mother's side being devout United Church members and after going through that tension between them and the hilariously bad attempts by Catholic run schools to teach me how to live and think about stuff like abortion and gays, I flirted with Buddhism for a while before deciding to just throw up my hands, screw the middle man and commit myself to believing whatever I wanted to believe and felt was the right course for my philosophical and spiritual life.

    I could never see myself staying a Catholic after I gave it a fair shake and read the Catechism and the Bible and even considered giving the priesthood a look after being an altar boy when I was younger. There was just too many questions that my religion teacher in high school would answer with "God will sort it out" and too much BS when it came to moral questions. I am fortunate I guess in that my immediate family was never very religious, but even if they were, I can't see myself accepting it forever.

    ahah!

    atheist versus agnostic now there's something I could talk about.

    But won't.

    anyway if someone asks I'll say atheist even though I'm technically agnostic. Since people think they mean what you seem to think they mean :P

    I prefer to assume agnostic from the onset is lazy, because I know people who use it as a way to avoid the whole religion versus atheism debate altogether and avoid conflict. I tend gauge how much a person has actually thought about said position and then decide later if I found it acceptably thought out.

    Agnostic on it's own is still a valid stance; you can never truly prove whether there is a God, personal or something else, or there isn't one, and that kind of thing can lead people to the conclusion that they admit ignorance (as any good Socratic thinker should) and will simply let death tell them if there is one or not later.

    for me this ties to what I was saying to Loren; i don't abide beliefs I consider meritless for me or without value in my life.

    "proof" one way or the other on this issue, isn't important to me, as is so readily and astutely observed such proof is objectively lacking in either direction. there's only intuition and deductive reasoning, oft terrible bedfellows really

    but does it matter? well, for me it does. my universe, my view of my life, my perspective on the world, is bettered for me by way of believing there is no god or gods. so, that is what i opt to believe. in lieu of conclusive evidence one way or the other, i go with the belief that meaningfully harms none and meaningfully aids me.

    when others do the same, and yet come to a different belief or conclusion, but based on the same criteria?

    i don't really fault them that, and i gain nothing from trying to "prove" to them I'm right, because the truth is, objectively

    there's no way for my living mind to know

    so i take it as an article of faith instead, and being thus don't care the begrudge people their own articles of faith that view differently, so long as the consequences of their beliefs don't run afoul of what i consider important in life

    based from the same criteria, ok, but what about not based on the same criteria at all?

    the criteria I am talking about here is the criteria of "good for me, doesn't hurt anybody else"

    if a Christian, for example, operates the practice of their faith and the profession of their beliefs based on that... I don't have any problem with them and they can do as they please.

    If a person can't help but run afoul of that very simplistic, consequentialist criteria then no

    i don't have a great deal of tolerance for it

    if a person's beliefs hinge on fucking other people over and doesn't really pay heed to what benefit it's actually bringing to their life

    i have a problem with that

    i think that's reasonable, personally

    it's one of those "your right to swing your arm ends where my face begins" type things

    I sorta agree

    kinda

    ish

    You want to say live and let live, but there's always that nagging sense of judgment that you get where you can picture one day there being a kid of one of these Christians who decides living that way in harmony with others outside the faith isn't good enough anymore and it's convert or die time.

    There's always at least one who will ruin it for everyone.
    2ItqRJ7.jpgSteam/Origin/PSN: Corehealer / Core's Streamtastical Livestream (Streaming Wildstar Beta later this year).
  • STATE OF THE ART ROBOTSTATE OF THE ART ROBOT Registered User regular
    wolfysimon what kind of maid are you?
  • SarksusSarksus TEN FUCKING DOLLARS Registered User regular
    Ugh, I am trying to find something that somebody said the other day about how in policy making shit still takes forever even when everyone agrees on what to do.

    And I thought that was a ridiculous way for things to be! That seems fundamentally dysfunctional and fuck humanity I'm going to watch anime and drink whiskey.
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    I am going to organize an Arrested Development Returns party

    We're going to drink vodka and probably watch the entire season in one sitting

    I will make banner

    It will be amazing
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    I wasn't accusing you of secretely being all ultranationalist. I was saying that you always answer with something that gives thought to both sides.
    xlh6c3.png
  • Solomaxwell6Solomaxwell6 Registered User regular
    The us prison population statistic is bullshit and is around because other countries lie and because of dumb statistics. Chinas official figure is that they have one of the lowest incarceration rates in the world (bullshit) and north Korea doesn't include their political prisoner camps (they're actually well ahead of us per capita).

    well that sure is fab that we might be doing better than north korea and china with regard to how many of our citizens we imprison

    I'm not trying to argue that the US is a utopia.

    But any time statistics can possibly be at all manipulated and/or faked to make the US seem more awful than it actually is? Yeah, someone will go ahead and do so. There are at least a handful of countries that are worse off than the US but are hidden behind stupid statistics. And most shitty third world dictatorships simply don't have the resources to lock up as many people as they might want so you can't even compare them to the US.

    The US should work to improve the justice system, but let's not spread bullshit.

    we're the goddamn united states

    that we are even being compared to these countries should reveal something to you

    we shouldn't win by a technicality in this category, or be better than a handful of some of the governments with the worst human rights records on the planet

    I don't think "the whole statistic hinges on using made up numbers" is a technicality.

    But that's not the point. When you want to criticize the US, do so. But use actual figures, actual numbers. Use facts. Use logic. Claiming that the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world is smug "America is awful because America" bullshit. We can look at the US incarceration rate and see that it is in fact very high and ask ourselves why it's so high and what we can do to lower it. But throwing in "the US has a higher proportion of its population in prison than North Korea!" just taints the argument.

    fine. america has lower incarceration rates than dictatorships and oligarchies that brutally repress dissidents

    but not many of them, because we're (almost!) the worst

    land of the freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    EagleCrying.jpg

    See, I don't think you're actually reading anything I'm saying.

    I'm not defending America. I'm saying using bullshit statistics is bullshit and let's fucking quit it.

    i don't think there's a significant difference between 'we're the worst' and 'we are among the worst of the worst' in this situation

    it's still true that we have the highest documented rate of incarceration, which means, as you said, we have the highest rate among countries that dont lie

    which is pretty much being the worst. at least to me.

    I'm not disagreeing that America is awful in that aspect (as well as many others).

    I've been pretty explicit about the fact that I'm criticizing the statistic, not the idea that the US has a shitty justice system.
  • SarksusSarksus TEN FUCKING DOLLARS Registered User regular
    I am going to organize an Arrested Development Returns party

    We're going to drink vodka and probably watch the entire season in one sitting

    I will make banner

    It will be amazing

    3x03_Forget-Me-Now_%2844%29.png
  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    chu, spool

    you both need to state your irony levels, now

    huh?

    how serious are you both about support for israel

    i think talking about my position on the israeli-palestinian conflict is meaningless in these terms

    it is not really reducible in that way to me how it seems to be to the international community

    supporting israel isn't just supporting their side in that conflict

    that is sort of my point? anyone who isn't

    1) a 63 year old evangelical
    2) a smarmy hillel kid
    3) a religious extremist

    will say there is some deplorable shit going on in the Territories

    but that is not any sort of comprehensive consensus from which one can leap to 'you can't possibly support israel can you'

    granular terms are necessary

    yeah but you're usually just this vague and deflecting when it comes to your feelings on the matter :P

    why are you being rude?

    i have directly criticized israel. i have made threads about israel, criticizing things about it.

    i don't know why you think it's ok to say this about something that is obviously emotionally important to me.

    I don't know what you think I said, here.

    is this a language barrier?

    i said 'i don't think it's that simple, you can't just reduce everything to easy terms. israel has done some bad things, but if you want to talk about whether one 'supports' israel you need to be more specific'

    to which you responded 'yeah but you're usually just vague and deflecting'

    does this not imply, to you, some level of disingenuousness on my part? lack of integrity when it comes to this issue? intellectual avoidance, cowardice?

    i dunno. if you meant something else i can't figure out what it might have been
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons LondresRegistered User regular
    What is the maid thing all about? LIke is SoTAR now a recruiter for a domestic service company or is there more to it?

    If not, what is the dental plan like for butler cadets?
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Corehealer wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    Corehealer wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Corehealer wrote: »
    I find cherry picking ideas from different religions and remaining spiritual in the sense of believing in something more then myself, whether that be a God or just another layer of existence beyond our own and being in harmony with it, to be preferable to being agnostic (which I look at as lazy) atheist (which is what I would be if I chose to no longer be a deist and is of course filled with it's own pros and cons) or part of an organized religious framework (lots of obvious cons there).

    I grew up Catholic with my grandparents on my mother's side being devout United Church members and after going through that tension between them and the hilariously bad attempts by Catholic run schools to teach me how to live and think about stuff like abortion and gays, I flirted with Buddhism for a while before deciding to just throw up my hands, screw the middle man and commit myself to believing whatever I wanted to believe and felt was the right course for my philosophical and spiritual life.

    I could never see myself staying a Catholic after I gave it a fair shake and read the Catechism and the Bible and even considered giving the priesthood a look after being an altar boy when I was younger. There was just too many questions that my religion teacher in high school would answer with "God will sort it out" and too much BS when it came to moral questions. I am fortunate I guess in that my immediate family was never very religious, but even if they were, I can't see myself accepting it forever.

    ahah!

    atheist versus agnostic now there's something I could talk about.

    But won't.

    anyway if someone asks I'll say atheist even though I'm technically agnostic. Since people think they mean what you seem to think they mean :P

    I prefer to assume agnostic from the onset is lazy, because I know people who use it as a way to avoid the whole religion versus atheism debate altogether and avoid conflict. I tend gauge how much a person has actually thought about said position and then decide later if I found it acceptably thought out.

    Agnostic on it's own is still a valid stance; you can never truly prove whether there is a God, personal or something else, or there isn't one, and that kind of thing can lead people to the conclusion that they admit ignorance (as any good Socratic thinker should) and will simply let death tell them if there is one or not later.

    for me this ties to what I was saying to Loren; i don't abide beliefs I consider meritless for me or without value in my life.

    "proof" one way or the other on this issue, isn't important to me, as is so readily and astutely observed such proof is objectively lacking in either direction. there's only intuition and deductive reasoning, oft terrible bedfellows really

    but does it matter? well, for me it does. my universe, my view of my life, my perspective on the world, is bettered for me by way of believing there is no god or gods. so, that is what i opt to believe. in lieu of conclusive evidence one way or the other, i go with the belief that meaningfully harms none and meaningfully aids me.

    when others do the same, and yet come to a different belief or conclusion, but based on the same criteria?

    i don't really fault them that, and i gain nothing from trying to "prove" to them I'm right, because the truth is, objectively

    there's no way for my living mind to know

    so i take it as an article of faith instead, and being thus don't care the begrudge people their own articles of faith that view differently, so long as the consequences of their beliefs don't run afoul of what i consider important in life

    based from the same criteria, ok, but what about not based on the same criteria at all?

    the criteria I am talking about here is the criteria of "good for me, doesn't hurt anybody else"

    if a Christian, for example, operates the practice of their faith and the profession of their beliefs based on that... I don't have any problem with them and they can do as they please.

    If a person can't help but run afoul of that very simplistic, consequentialist criteria then no

    i don't have a great deal of tolerance for it

    if a person's beliefs hinge on fucking other people over and doesn't really pay heed to what benefit it's actually bringing to their life

    i have a problem with that

    i think that's reasonable, personally

    it's one of those "your right to swing your arm ends where my face begins" type things

    I sorta agree

    kinda

    ish

    You want to say live and let live, but there's always that nagging sense of judgment that you get where you can picture one day there being a kid of one of these Christians who decides living that way in harmony with others outside the faith isn't good enough anymore and it's convert or die time.

    There's always at least one who will ruin it for everyone.

    yeah and the bit I disagree on is that like, if I believed, then I either would believe that my belief was the one and absolute truth, or, it wouldn't be belief
    xlh6c3.png
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    I'm saying that if christians made sense to me they'd stone me.
    xlh6c3.png
  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    I wasn't accusing you of secretely being all ultranationalist. I was saying that you always answer with something that gives thought to both sides.

    lolwut

    you did this very badly

    whatever you said came off more like "yeah but u never talk about this even when other people want to, how legitimate can your position be"
    sig.gif
  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    That guy. That fucking guy. Bad Apple Pete.
    _J_ wrote:
    If we only allowed pedophiles to be parents, then we would never have to worry about children being left alone, unwatched.
    XBL: Fanatical One AIM: itskagera
  • HamurabiHamurabi Registered User regular
    holy fuck someone took their own life live on twitch tonight jesus christ

    What the FUCK?

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=556930
    Hope shes OK.
    network_sig2.png
  • SarksusSarksus TEN FUCKING DOLLARS Registered User regular
    Edited banner gags are my favorite

    It's_a_boy.png
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary Your Dark Descent FriendRegistered User regular
    simonwolf wrote: »
    Corehealer wrote: »
    I couldn't bear to watch someone kill themselves, especially after all the struggles I had with my demons in that regard earlier in life.

    This is probably a good indication that you are still human, yes

    I like to joke that I am not though, often. It's a leftover from my childhood where my autistic inability to relate to others and their feelings in any meaningful manner led my young mind to the logical conclusion that I am a not human stuck in a human body for reasons. And it's kind of stuck and reflects in a lot of my writing and art.

    I look at myself as just an entity, and the body I have today is just a transitory identity, separate from the real one I have either created for myself since my earliest memory, or that I have assumed again from ages beyond counting and will know again while in some new form in the future after death.
    2ItqRJ7.jpgSteam/Origin/PSN: Corehealer / Core's Streamtastical Livestream (Streaming Wildstar Beta later this year).
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    chu, spool

    you both need to state your irony levels, now

    huh?

    how serious are you both about support for israel

    i think talking about my position on the israeli-palestinian conflict is meaningless in these terms

    it is not really reducible in that way to me how it seems to be to the international community

    supporting israel isn't just supporting their side in that conflict

    that is sort of my point? anyone who isn't

    1) a 63 year old evangelical
    2) a smarmy hillel kid
    3) a religious extremist

    will say there is some deplorable shit going on in the Territories

    but that is not any sort of comprehensive consensus from which one can leap to 'you can't possibly support israel can you'

    granular terms are necessary

    yeah but you're usually just this vague and deflecting when it comes to your feelings on the matter :P

    why are you being rude?

    i have directly criticized israel. i have made threads about israel, criticizing things about it.

    i don't know why you think it's ok to say this about something that is obviously emotionally important to me.

    I don't know what you think I said, here.

    is this a language barrier?

    i said 'i don't think it's that simple, you can't just reduce everything to easy terms. israel has done some bad things, but if you want to talk about whether one 'supports' israel you need to be more specific'

    to which you responded 'yeah but you're usually just vague and deflecting'

    does this not imply, to you, some level of disingenuousness on my part? lack of integrity when it comes to this issue? intellectual avoidance, cowardice?

    i dunno. if you meant something else i can't figure out what it might have been

    it means that I don't really know anything about your position here, other than the fact that you're not very heavily to one side

    since that's... all you said.

    the implications can come into play after the obvious meaning.
    xlh6c3.png
  • CokebotleCokebotle 穴掘りの Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    spool32 wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    chu, spool

    you both need to state your irony levels, now

    This should be a thing.

    Like in a heated discussion where you're not sure who's being serious or not you should be like

    IRONY CHECK

    And then everyone has to report their current irony levels like so:

    [********---]
    7/10 Ironies

    Icyliquid

    I would like to be able to query Geth about someone's sarcasm level and have him report back a number.

    I don't really care what that number is or where it falls on a particular scale.

    Geth, check sarcasm level of Abdhyius

    SARCASM LEVEL CURRENTLY 8.935 AND FALLING.

    We can kinda already do this, yes?

    Geth roll 1d10.

    Edit: Weak, I stand corrected :(
    Cokebotle on
    工事中
  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    holy fuck someone took their own life live on twitch tonight jesus christ

    What the FUCK?

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=556930
    Hope shes OK.

    There's no real information about how or even if she did take her life just rumors from 4chan no official news report or anything. I mean I am guessing she did but have no confirmation from any valid source b
    _J_ wrote:
    If we only allowed pedophiles to be parents, then we would never have to worry about children being left alone, unwatched.
    XBL: Fanatical One AIM: itskagera
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    I feel that, as a society, we don't have a right to demand that people not destroy themselves.

    Whether that's suicide, addiction, or any other behavior that the rest of us see as self-harming.

    We don't have a right to demand they not do that. It's foolish to make a law about it or something.

    But I think we have, instead, a potential to dissuade people from being their own worst enemy. Whether it's trying to intervene as a group when one of your friends is losing themselves to substance abuse, being there to support someone as they struggle to break away from an abusive relationship, making the hard decision to cast a harsh mirror on someone's self-destruction and being the one to confront them about it.

    Well it work always? Of course not. And just because you think you should do it, does that de facto make it the right call? Nope, not really. But if you see someone ripping themselves apart by their own choices, viewpoints, beliefs, or mindsets, and you give a shit about them, then at the very least you should try to help them in the best way you can come to know. It might mean a good bit of research and effort on your part to do it the right way, and even if you mean the best in the world you might still be in the wrong. But in lieu of evidence to suggest you are wrong for doing so, you should go with your own empathy and compassion to help a person until it's clear they simply rebuke your help and wrong or right, will not accept it.

    I take this attitude to people doing most things I don't think are right that they are doing, especially when the person they're really doing it to is themselves. I'm there if I care till I feel it's wrong to be. Till I feel it's not helping.

    However, when it comes to matters of personal philosophy or faith or deeper worldview, rare is it that a person has a fully formed system that they self-identify by that I find so onerous that I can only reasonably determine is hurting themselves or others. Instead, that sort of thing tends to be the province of the mentally ill, the abused, the misanthropic, the hurt and hatefilled and embittered. And when I look at folks like that, all I can see is people who need help. Doesn't mean I'm the person to help them. Maybe nobody is. But if you don't go through life even considering whether or not you should try, then man

    i just don't know
  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    chu, spool

    you both need to state your irony levels, now

    huh?

    how serious are you both about support for israel

    i think talking about my position on the israeli-palestinian conflict is meaningless in these terms

    it is not really reducible in that way to me how it seems to be to the international community

    supporting israel isn't just supporting their side in that conflict

    that is sort of my point? anyone who isn't

    1) a 63 year old evangelical
    2) a smarmy hillel kid
    3) a religious extremist

    will say there is some deplorable shit going on in the Territories

    but that is not any sort of comprehensive consensus from which one can leap to 'you can't possibly support israel can you'

    granular terms are necessary

    yeah but you're usually just this vague and deflecting when it comes to your feelings on the matter :P

    why are you being rude?

    i have directly criticized israel. i have made threads about israel, criticizing things about it.

    i don't know why you think it's ok to say this about something that is obviously emotionally important to me.

    I don't know what you think I said, here.

    is this a language barrier?

    i said 'i don't think it's that simple, you can't just reduce everything to easy terms. israel has done some bad things, but if you want to talk about whether one 'supports' israel you need to be more specific'

    to which you responded 'yeah but you're usually just vague and deflecting'

    does this not imply, to you, some level of disingenuousness on my part? lack of integrity when it comes to this issue? intellectual avoidance, cowardice?

    i dunno. if you meant something else i can't figure out what it might have been

    it means that I don't really know anything about your position here, other than the fact that you're not very heavily to one side

    since that's... all you said.

    the implications can come into play after the obvious meaning.

    ok then yes this means we use language very differently, because i'd only say that if i was telling someone basically "you never commit on this issue- you're dishonest or lack conviction". deflecting is a pretty negative word in my vocabulary.

    but it's whatever, if you say it is a misunderstanding that is fine with me and i ain't even mad

    *slams shot of mountain dew*
This discussion has been closed.