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Posts

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    The thing I like about the USA is that we're already pretty much the best country (no offense other countries, you're cool too) but when we're done fixing the last of the obvious stuff there will really be no contest.

    It won't even be fair.
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  • WinkyWinky Registered User regular
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    what an unpleasant convo sarksus i can't imagine this is good for you

    Well it doesn't make me sad. It just makes me apathetic.

    So it's bad for my career as it makes me not want to pursue anything that has to do with society, but I am content.

    When I'm on meds this will probably clear up.

    You should be the opposite of apathetic! You acknowledge that the world is in an unacceptable state, but also that the world continues to get better. This means that the world can be made a better place, that you can fight the good fight and win, and that there's hope that the world will be a better place when you're done with it.

    If I fight the good fight maybe I'll win decades from now after my soul has been eroded by the horrible people I battle and then I can die.

    But you'll have won, and the world will be a better place.

    It does work, you can win.
    vspgsp.jpg
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    wandering wrote: »
    America is pretty okay

    Other countries have better health care though
    And less violence
    And better education systems
    And a better social safety net
    And less starvation
    And less executions and less solitary confinement and less people in prison and shorter prison terms and a larger focus on rehabilitation of prisoners and less draconian drug laws
    And a more knowledgeable populace
    And less littering
    And better LGBT protections
    And

    Other countries have worse all those things too.

    except amount of prisoners.

    True! I wonder if we are still worst if we look at prisoners as percent of population though.

    Not saying that the US doesn't have a ton of work to do on that front.
    AoTsig_zps8cfd65c2.png
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    people are not terrible on average. The world isn't bad on average.

    Most of the shit going down in the world are good things.

    Can you quantify this in some way.

    I don't have the specific numbers, no. Because the inverse is patently ludicrous.

    Why.

    I'm guessing it's a matter of perspective. Norway's pretty much near the top of all the "best things" chart.

    Some people grew up and lived in places nearer to the bottom of said charts.

    People can be terrifyingly, and I avoid them.

    No it's not. Are you saying I don't hold a super bleak life of the world just because I live somewhere nice?

    because it's just that I don't accentuate the negatives

    and because I know that for the most part, stuff happens that never gets in the news because it's boring old good stuff happening.
    xlh6c3.png
  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    Smasher wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So far I haven't seen good data showing a reduction in national identity or pride. I would I say I have seen more the other way. China's nationalist education producing similar views and results to Japan's nationalist education of the early 1900's. The Arab Spring was pan-national but the actual protesters on the street were for their own countries first. Retrenchment of Russian nationalism under Putin, though he has push back. The rise of the right in Japan and Korea. The delegitimization of the EU do the the Cyprus and Greek banking crises. Tough that I think gets over stated.

    Really to me I see a resurgence in national identity in recent history not a reduction. And I really would tie this more to the economic woes of the World since 2008 than anything else. People tend to hang onto identity more when there such events.

    This is interesting.

    My anecdotal experience is obviously meaningless here because a) that's a global issue and b) I live in Canada, where people are vaguely ashamed of their country and are proud of being "nice" and are constantly obsessing over the establishment of a national identity
    I'm admittedly ignorant of most Canadian history, but I have a hard time imagining what Canada would have to be ashamed about (relative to other countries; I'm sure every country has some bad shit in its history).

    Let me tell you something about native Canadians...
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  • SarksusSarksus TEN FUCKING DOLLARS Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    people are not terrible on average. The world isn't bad on average.

    Most of the shit going down in the world are good things.

    Can you quantify this in some way.

    I don't have the specific numbers, no. Because the inverse is patently ludicrous.

    Why.

    I don't even know where to begin.

    most people's lives are okay most of the time?

    But how do you know.
  • MortiousMortious Move to New Zealand Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Deebaser wrote: »
    spoiler tags for current episodes in tv threads ruin the thread

    there i said it

    but clicking 80 spoiler buttons a page is super fun!

    Could you start a thread called "UNTAGGED SPOILER THREAD, YEA THERE BE DRAGONS INSIDE

    As far as I know, yes.

    As long as you specify the rules in the OP
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Smasher wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So far I haven't seen good data showing a reduction in national identity or pride. I would I say I have seen more the other way. China's nationalist education producing similar views and results to Japan's nationalist education of the early 1900's. The Arab Spring was pan-national but the actual protesters on the street were for their own countries first. Retrenchment of Russian nationalism under Putin, though he has push back. The rise of the right in Japan and Korea. The delegitimization of the EU do the the Cyprus and Greek banking crises. Tough that I think gets over stated.

    Really to me I see a resurgence in national identity in recent history not a reduction. And I really would tie this more to the economic woes of the World since 2008 than anything else. People tend to hang onto identity more when there such events.

    This is interesting.

    My anecdotal experience is obviously meaningless here because a) that's a global issue and b) I live in Canada, where people are vaguely ashamed of their country and are proud of being "nice" and are constantly obsessing over the establishment of a national identity
    I'm admittedly ignorant of most Canadian history, but I have a hard time imagining what Canada would have to be ashamed about (relative to other countries; I'm sure every country has some bad shit in its history).

    Dudes have a pretty awkward history with the natives.
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  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    @podly

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS9D6w1GzGY

    i should have probably just bat signaled everyone.
    DasUberEdward on
    Yet that is exactly what i see here.
  • ShivahnShivahn Registered User regular
    Smasher wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So far I haven't seen good data showing a reduction in national identity or pride. I would I say I have seen more the other way. China's nationalist education producing similar views and results to Japan's nationalist education of the early 1900's. The Arab Spring was pan-national but the actual protesters on the street were for their own countries first. Retrenchment of Russian nationalism under Putin, though he has push back. The rise of the right in Japan and Korea. The delegitimization of the EU do the the Cyprus and Greek banking crises. Tough that I think gets over stated.

    Really to me I see a resurgence in national identity in recent history not a reduction. And I really would tie this more to the economic woes of the World since 2008 than anything else. People tend to hang onto identity more when there such events.

    This is interesting.

    My anecdotal experience is obviously meaningless here because a) that's a global issue and b) I live in Canada, where people are vaguely ashamed of their country and are proud of being "nice" and are constantly obsessing over the establishment of a national identity
    I'm admittedly ignorant of most Canadian history, but I have a hard time imagining what Canada would have to be ashamed about (relative to other countries; I'm sure every country has some bad shit in its history).

    First nations whooo
  • SarksusSarksus TEN FUCKING DOLLARS Registered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    what an unpleasant convo sarksus i can't imagine this is good for you

    Well it doesn't make me sad. It just makes me apathetic.

    So it's bad for my career as it makes me not want to pursue anything that has to do with society, but I am content.

    When I'm on meds this will probably clear up.

    You should be the opposite of apathetic! You acknowledge that the world is in an unacceptable state, but also that the world continues to get better. This means that the world can be made a better place, that you can fight the good fight and win, and that there's hope that the world will be a better place when you're done with it.

    If I fight the good fight maybe I'll win decades from now after my soul has been eroded by the horrible people I battle and then I can die.

    But you'll have won, and the world will be a better place.

    It does work, you can win.

    So I just have to sacrifice my happiness for a significant percentage of my life.
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    people are not terrible on average. The world isn't bad on average.

    Most of the shit going down in the world are good things.

    Can you quantify this in some way.

    I don't have the specific numbers, no. Because the inverse is patently ludicrous.

    Why.

    I don't even know where to begin.

    most people's lives are okay most of the time?

    As in most people on earth? I don't think that's necessarily true. Life has improved dramatically even for the utterly neglected homeless and mentally ill in first world nations, but there are lots of people still subsisting in quiet desperation.
  • Solomaxwell6Solomaxwell6 Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    The thing I like about the USA is that we're already pretty much the best country (no offense other countries, you're cool too) but when we kick out the south there will really be no contest.

    It won't even be fair.

  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    wandering wrote: »
    America is pretty okay

    Other countries have better health care though
    And less violence
    And better education systems
    And a better social safety net
    And less starvation
    And less executions and less solitary confinement and less people in prison and shorter prison terms and a larger focus on rehabilitation of prisoners and less draconian drug laws
    And a more knowledgeable populace
    And less littering
    And better LGBT protections
    And

    Other countries have worse all those things too.

    except amount of prisoners.

    True! I wonder if we are still worst if we look at prisoners as percent of population though.

    Not saying that the US doesn't have a ton of work to do on that front.

    oh I think total amount china is juuuuuust ahead of you

    as percent of population? You're number one in the world.
    xlh6c3.png
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    hey hey hey

    I see what you did there.

    :v:
    Successful Kickstarter get! Drop by Bare Mettle Entertainment if you'd like to see what we're making.
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Registered User regular
    Kagera wrote: »
    spoiler tags for current episodes in tv threads ruin the thread

    there i said it

    Oh so you want people who are in different time zones or have to work to be spoiled or not be able to read the thread.

    That's great Ceddy, real great.

    why would they read the thread if they hadn't watched the episode

    so they can read stuff like "man i thought it was interesting when [spoilers]"?
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Smasher wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So far I haven't seen good data showing a reduction in national identity or pride. I would I say I have seen more the other way. China's nationalist education producing similar views and results to Japan's nationalist education of the early 1900's. The Arab Spring was pan-national but the actual protesters on the street were for their own countries first. Retrenchment of Russian nationalism under Putin, though he has push back. The rise of the right in Japan and Korea. The delegitimization of the EU do the the Cyprus and Greek banking crises. Tough that I think gets over stated.

    Really to me I see a resurgence in national identity in recent history not a reduction. And I really would tie this more to the economic woes of the World since 2008 than anything else. People tend to hang onto identity more when there such events.

    This is interesting.

    My anecdotal experience is obviously meaningless here because a) that's a global issue and b) I live in Canada, where people are vaguely ashamed of their country and are proud of being "nice" and are constantly obsessing over the establishment of a national identity
    I'm admittedly ignorant of most Canadian history, but I have a hard time imagining what Canada would have to be ashamed about (relative to other countries; I'm sure every country has some bad shit in its history).

    Canada practiced eugenics at one point.

    Quebec's education laws completely gross and unfair.

    Off the top of my head.
    AoTsig_zps8cfd65c2.png
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    people are not terrible on average. The world isn't bad on average.

    Most of the shit going down in the world are good things.

    Can you quantify this in some way.

    I don't have the specific numbers, no. Because the inverse is patently ludicrous.

    Why.

    I don't even know where to begin.

    most people's lives are okay most of the time?

    But how do you know.

    Because how people live their lives is of great interest to me.
    xlh6c3.png
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    For one, going around and feeling sorry for yourself all the time is a privilege pretty much only we westerners have.
    Abdhyius on
    xlh6c3.png
  • DeebaserDeebaser Way out in the water See it swimmin'?Registered User regular
    Mortious wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Deebaser wrote: »
    spoiler tags for current episodes in tv threads ruin the thread

    there i said it

    but clicking 80 spoiler buttons a page is super fun!

    Could you start a thread called "UNTAGGED SPOILER THREAD, YEA THERE BE DRAGONS INSIDE

    As far as I know, yes.

    As long as you specify the rules in the OP


    The OP will just be SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDORE.
    #FreeThan
    #FreeScheck
    #FreeSKFM
  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    people are not terrible on average. The world isn't bad on average.

    Most of the shit going down in the world are good things.

    Can you quantify this in some way.

    I don't have the specific numbers, no. Because the inverse is patently ludicrous.

    Why.

    I don't even know where to begin.

    most people's lives are okay most of the time?

    But how do you know.

    Like do you want numbers because there aren't any. The fact most people aren't killing themselves or doped up on meds or generally showing signs of severe mental stress seems proof enough to me.
    _J_ wrote:
    If we only allowed pedophiles to be parents, then we would never have to worry about children being left alone, unwatched.
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  • SarksusSarksus TEN FUCKING DOLLARS Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    people are not terrible on average. The world isn't bad on average.

    Most of the shit going down in the world are good things.

    Can you quantify this in some way.

    I don't have the specific numbers, no. Because the inverse is patently ludicrous.

    Why.

    I don't even know where to begin.

    most people's lives are okay most of the time?

    But how do you know.

    Because how people live their lives is of great interest to me.

    Cite the information you gathered and read due to this great interest you possess so that I might also read it and then change my mind.
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    wandering wrote: »
    America is pretty okay

    Other countries have better health care though
    And less violence
    And better education systems
    And a better social safety net
    And less starvation
    And less executions and less solitary confinement and less people in prison and shorter prison terms and a larger focus on rehabilitation of prisoners and less draconian drug laws
    And a more knowledgeable populace
    And less littering
    And better LGBT protections
    And

    Other countries have worse all those things too.

    except amount of prisoners.

    True! I wonder if we are still worst if we look at prisoners as percent of population though.

    Not saying that the US doesn't have a ton of work to do on that front.

    oh I think total amount china is juuuuuust ahead of you

    as percent of population? You're number one in the world.

    My God... All those countries with criminals just walking free. :)
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Registered User regular
    oh yeah america sure does still put a lot of black people in prison that is sort of awk

    but hey if we had a 'putting a young black men in prison 'lympics' we would probably win gold
  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    Kagera wrote: »
    spoiler tags for current episodes in tv threads ruin the thread

    there i said it

    Oh so you want people who are in different time zones or have to work to be spoiled or not be able to read the thread.

    That's great Ceddy, real great.

    why would they read the thread if they hadn't watched the episode

    so they can read stuff like "man i thought it was interesting when [spoilers]"?

    Discuss previous episodes, share views on character and story development, rep your ship.
    _J_ wrote:
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  • DeebaserDeebaser Way out in the water See it swimmin'?Registered User regular

    Kagera wrote: »
    spoiler tags for current episodes in tv threads ruin the thread

    there i said it

    Oh so you want people who are in different time zones or have to work to be spoiled or not be able to read the thread.

    That's great Ceddy, real great.

    why would they read the thread if they hadn't watched the episode

    so they can read stuff like "man i thought it was interesting when [spoilers]"?

    Something "interesting" happened?
    Way to spoil the ep, eddy.
    worse than hitler.
    #FreeThan
    #FreeScheck
    #FreeSKFM
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    I am going to start a book soon called On Atlantic Ice that describes the current state of the theory that the pre-clovis peoples (1st North Americans) came over from Europe across an Atlantic ice bridge, rather than coming across the Bering sea.
    Successful Kickstarter get! Drop by Bare Mettle Entertainment if you'd like to see what we're making.
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    people are not terrible on average. The world isn't bad on average.

    Most of the shit going down in the world are good things.

    Can you quantify this in some way.

    I don't have the specific numbers, no. Because the inverse is patently ludicrous.

    Why.

    I don't even know where to begin.

    most people's lives are okay most of the time?

    But how do you know.

    Because how people live their lives is of great interest to me.

    Cite the information you gathered and read due to this great interest you possess so that I might also read it and then change my mind.

    No. That would be everything ever.
    xlh6c3.png
  • WinkyWinky Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    people are not terrible on average. The world isn't bad on average.

    Most of the shit going down in the world are good things.

    Can you quantify this in some way.

    I don't have the specific numbers, no. Because the inverse is patently ludicrous.

    Why.

    On my phone but go watch the Ted talks about the surprising decline of violence and statistics that will change your view of the world.

    I forget the exact titles but they should be close to that and both should be found in the list of Bill Gate's favorite TED talks.

    Steven Pinker is the guy. He wrote a book called The Better Angels of Our Nature (he's also an evo psych guy but we will ignore that for now because the massive amount of data he uses is gathered together from a huge number of experts in their respective relevant fields, and makes a pretty compelling argument on its own even without Pinker trying to shoe-horn in a couple dubious evo psych conclusions as non-crucial corollaries).
    vspgsp.jpg
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Historically, yes, Canadians have treated natives monstrously and continue to do so; the streets of every major city are lined with homeless alcoholic aboriginal folks. Our prisons are full of them too. We fucked them hard.

    But on a more day to day level, Canadians just don't have many sources of pride and have an inferiority complex compared to America. I'm not saying this is justified, just my experience of how Canadians see themselves.
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    Pony wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    Given my lack of belief in a kind of "free will", the notion of pride is kind of weird to me at a certain level.

    to be frank, Loren, I don't know how you function day to day without having some kind of internally agreed upon stopping point to your higher ideals and acknowledging the functional realities of what is observable.

    "Eh... fuck it."
    but then I'm equally mystified by other kinds of deterministic philosophies.

    The alternatives don't make any sense to me.

    I don't know that I can fix that!

    you're a pretty well-read dude and i respect you, intellectually

    so I generally take on faith that you've familiarized yourself at the very least with the major philosophical thrusts of non-deterministic worldviews

    at the very least from a Western philosophical framework

    given thus

    i'unno that i can make a compelling argument on the subject for you

    Prolly not.

    I've refined my determinism/randomness shtick to something that could fit very neatly onto one side of an index card.

    Like, it seems simple enough to me.

    And I don't have a lot of different places for people to shake my confidence.

    Like, it's all right-there.

    It's not some sprawling argument that relies on layered assumptions.

    The assumptions are simple, and easy enough to recite.

    I've made the example observations punchy enough to keep it interesting to laypeople who don't generally enjoy philosophy.

    It's easy to keep in my head, easy to bring up, easy to use, and easy to defend, and enjoyable at least for me to talk about it, in large part because of those aforementioned factors.

    So

    Prolly not, but I wish you'd try.

    for me it's ultimately a functionalism issue

    an issue of

    if something is immeasurable, if something is imperceptible, and in some heisenbergian way at a point becomes impossible to observe without interacting with it and defining it

    does it matter anymore?

    is it important?

    what is it's functional value, at that point?

    for me, it's a question of what is the virtue of a deterministic view? what does it bring to me, in what fashion does it enrich my life or positively impact my existence? does it have a value in a way that i, possessed only of my limited ability to sense and understand, can determine?

    ....not really?

    that's the best answer i can manage

    for me, i have no place in my life for beliefs and views i consider useless or without benefit. i see no benefit in determinism. even if it is an ultimate, objective truth. even if it is the most objectively true thing possible, because it is ultimately unknowable and has imperceptible function on my perceived existence i do not care about it

    so i don't see the sense in believing in things that don't do anything for me to believe in them. i've never seen a belief in determinism as freeing, useful, or capacious in accommodating the existence i opt for myself.

    a man who is blind could benefit from sight, but in a world of blindness no man benefits from knowing that there is a world that is impossible for anyone to see.

    "Eh, fuck it" indeed, sir
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Registered User regular
    what was it? like 1% of our adult population is in prison? that's pretty unfortunate.
  • MazzyxMazzyx Changing the World Order. Registered User regular
    Smasher wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So far I haven't seen good data showing a reduction in national identity or pride. I would I say I have seen more the other way. China's nationalist education producing similar views and results to Japan's nationalist education of the early 1900's. The Arab Spring was pan-national but the actual protesters on the street were for their own countries first. Retrenchment of Russian nationalism under Putin, though he has push back. The rise of the right in Japan and Korea. The delegitimization of the EU do the the Cyprus and Greek banking crises. Tough that I think gets over stated.

    Really to me I see a resurgence in national identity in recent history not a reduction. And I really would tie this more to the economic woes of the World since 2008 than anything else. People tend to hang onto identity more when there such events.

    This is interesting.

    My anecdotal experience is obviously meaningless here because a) that's a global issue and b) I live in Canada, where people are vaguely ashamed of their country and are proud of being "nice" and are constantly obsessing over the establishment of a national identity
    I'm admittedly ignorant of most Canadian history, but I have a hard time imagining what Canada would have to be ashamed about (relative to other countries; I'm sure every country has some bad shit in its history).

    Like most European colonizers their treatment of the native populations is not something to write home about.
    falasig.png
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    It's no surprise that Canada has a bit of a complex.

    Being so close to America probably makes it hard to love your own country.
    Successful Kickstarter get! Drop by Bare Mettle Entertainment if you'd like to see what we're making.
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Pony wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    Pony wrote: »
    Given my lack of belief in a kind of "free will", the notion of pride is kind of weird to me at a certain level.

    to be frank, Loren, I don't know how you function day to day without having some kind of internally agreed upon stopping point to your higher ideals and acknowledging the functional realities of what is observable.

    "Eh... fuck it."
    but then I'm equally mystified by other kinds of deterministic philosophies.

    The alternatives don't make any sense to me.

    I don't know that I can fix that!

    you're a pretty well-read dude and i respect you, intellectually

    so I generally take on faith that you've familiarized yourself at the very least with the major philosophical thrusts of non-deterministic worldviews

    at the very least from a Western philosophical framework

    given thus

    i'unno that i can make a compelling argument on the subject for you

    Prolly not.

    I've refined my determinism/randomness shtick to something that could fit very neatly onto one side of an index card.

    Like, it seems simple enough to me.

    And I don't have a lot of different places for people to shake my confidence.

    Like, it's all right-there.

    It's not some sprawling argument that relies on layered assumptions.

    The assumptions are simple, and easy enough to recite.

    I've made the example observations punchy enough to keep it interesting to laypeople who don't generally enjoy philosophy.

    It's easy to keep in my head, easy to bring up, easy to use, and easy to defend, and enjoyable at least for me to talk about it, in large part because of those aforementioned factors.

    So

    Prolly not, but I wish you'd try.

    for me it's ultimately a functionalism issue

    an issue of

    if something is immeasurable, if something is imperceptible, and in some heisenbergian way at a point becomes impossible to observe without interacting with it and defining it

    does it matter anymore?

    is it important?

    what is it's functional value, at that point?

    for me, it's a question of what is the virtue of a deterministic view? what does it bring to me, in what fashion does it enrich my life or positively impact my existence? does it have a value in a way that i, possessed only of my limited ability to sense and understand, can determine?

    ....not really?

    that's the best answer i can manage

    for me, i have no place in my life for beliefs and views i consider useless or without benefit. i see no benefit in determinism. even if it is an ultimate, objective truth. even if it is the most objectively true thing possible, because it is ultimately unknowable and has imperceptible function on my perceived existence i do not care about it

    so i don't see the sense in believing in things that don't do anything for me to believe in them. i've never seen a belief in determinism as freeing, useful, or capacious in accommodating the existence i opt for myself.

    a man who is blind could benefit from sight, but in a world of blindness no man benefits from knowing that there is a world that is impossible for anyone to see.

    "Eh, fuck it" indeed, sir

    1. it's not determinism - a stochastic universe has just as much free will

    2. yep
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  • Solomaxwell6Solomaxwell6 Registered User regular
    The us prison population statistic is bullshit and is around because other countries lie and because of dumb statistics. Chinas official figure is that they have one of the lowest incarceration rates in the world (bullshit) and north Korea doesn't include their political prisoner camps (they're actually well ahead of us per capita).
  • MazzyxMazzyx Changing the World Order. Registered User regular
    Forgot to add Canada has some visa stuff that leads to some really bad human trafficking rings.
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  • MortiousMortious Move to New Zealand Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Mortious wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Sarksus wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    people are not terrible on average. The world isn't bad on average.

    Most of the shit going down in the world are good things.

    Can you quantify this in some way.

    I don't have the specific numbers, no. Because the inverse is patently ludicrous.

    Why.

    I'm guessing it's a matter of perspective. Norway's pretty much near the top of all the "best things" chart.

    Some people grew up and lived in places nearer to the bottom of said charts.

    People can be terrifyingly, and I avoid them.

    No it's not. Are you saying I don't hold a super bleak life of the world just because I live somewhere nice?

    because it's just that I don't accentuate the negatives

    and because I know that for the most part, stuff happens that never gets in the news because it's boring old good stuff happening.

    I'm just saying in your life, you're probably exposed to a lot more -from other people's perspective at least- positives than negatives.

    And that's cool, there's nothing wrong with that. In fact that's great, and I plan to eventually end up there (You can buy me a beer)

    Other people, either by where they live, or just a roll of the dice, experience things that'll put them off the whole human race thing.

    Personally, having to leave class early because you don't want to get set on fire kind of puts you off other people.

    New Zealand's cool though. I'm glad I moved. Even their problems are cool.
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    to me believing something rather than trying to get as close as you can to the truth is strange
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  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Smasher wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So far I haven't seen good data showing a reduction in national identity or pride. I would I say I have seen more the other way. China's nationalist education producing similar views and results to Japan's nationalist education of the early 1900's. The Arab Spring was pan-national but the actual protesters on the street were for their own countries first. Retrenchment of Russian nationalism under Putin, though he has push back. The rise of the right in Japan and Korea. The delegitimization of the EU do the the Cyprus and Greek banking crises. Tough that I think gets over stated.

    Really to me I see a resurgence in national identity in recent history not a reduction. And I really would tie this more to the economic woes of the World since 2008 than anything else. People tend to hang onto identity more when there such events.

    This is interesting.

    My anecdotal experience is obviously meaningless here because a) that's a global issue and b) I live in Canada, where people are vaguely ashamed of their country and are proud of being "nice" and are constantly obsessing over the establishment of a national identity
    I'm admittedly ignorant of most Canadian history, but I have a hard time imagining what Canada would have to be ashamed about (relative to other countries; I'm sure every country has some bad shit in its history).

    Like most European colonizers their treatment of the native populations is not something to write home about.

    Dearest mother,
    Boy did I oppress some dirty savages today and rape their women.
    _J_ wrote:
    If we only allowed pedophiles to be parents, then we would never have to worry about children being left alone, unwatched.
    XBL: Fanatical One AIM: itskagera
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