[chat] going one way, people another

Casual

Tav wrote: »

Organichu wrote: »

Tav wrote: »

Antinumeric wrote: »

Organichu wrote: »

i don't think most models are too thin. i mean, maybe high couture parisian runway models with severe makeup, wearing pelicans made of pvc piping are too thin. but plenty of models are just tall, slender women without their ribs showing. plenty of room for slender ladies and curvy ladies and all.

i think when it comes to dangerously, obviously unhealthy thin women you end up with more emotionally victimized teenaged girls who are aspiring to be models than actual models.

Yeah i think this is a problem with the fashion industry.

Personally I find that there's a culture of fat acceptance that's far more widespread and dangerous. There are far more dangerously overweight people than there are dangerously underweight people. Not that the fashion industry is promoting it, but a lot of people seem to have the idea of "oh well, it's not their fault they're fat!" when really, in 99% of cases, it is. I'm saying this as a pretty big dude. Losing weight isn't particularly hard, all it takes is a bit of knowledge and dedication.

i disagree that it isn't particularly hard- for some people it's a lifelong battle that is harder than getting their college degree or maintaining their marriage or whatever. it can be everything for some people, and it's dreadful.

but i agree that i don't really like some of the attitudes of the fat acceptance community. i'm all for promoting a positive body image but i don't like the obfuscation of certain things just because people are fragile and can have their feelings hurt. so yeah, tell society that it's fucked up to tear down people for their body. but don't then say 'besides, it's not like you can do anything about it'. that ain't cool.

i don't think there's anything wrong with saying 'look how you want to look, and don't let others objectify you and define your self-worth. but if you're interested, it's generally accepted that a healthy weight range for people of your height and age is so and so.'

Yeah, not particularly hard probably wasn't the right term. It is a difficult thing to do, but there are a lot of resources available to do it. It's not this big mystery like a lot of people claim it is.

it's as hard as doing anything that requires consistent, long term appliction of motivation, effort and perseverance

which as it turns out, is pretty fucking hard for 90% of people

Organichu

redx wrote: »

Organichu wrote: »

Tav wrote: »

Antinumeric wrote: »

Organichu wrote: »

i don't think most models are too thin. i mean, maybe high couture parisian runway models with severe makeup, wearing pelicans made of pvc piping are too thin. but plenty of models are just tall, slender women without their ribs showing. plenty of room for slender ladies and curvy ladies and all.

i think when it comes to dangerously, obviously unhealthy thin women you end up with more emotionally victimized teenaged girls who are aspiring to be models than actual models.

Yeah i think this is a problem with the fashion industry.

Personally I find that there's a culture of fat acceptance that's far more widespread and dangerous. There are far more dangerously overweight people than there are dangerously underweight people. Not that the fashion industry is promoting it, but a lot of people seem to have the idea of "oh well, it's not their fault they're fat!" when really, in 99% of cases, it is. I'm saying this as a pretty big dude. Losing weight isn't particularly hard, all it takes is a bit of knowledge and dedication.

i disagree that it isn't particularly hard- for some people it's a lifelong battle that is harder than getting their college degree or maintaining their marriage or whatever. it can be everything for some people, and it's dreadful.

but i agree that i don't really like some of the attitudes of the fat acceptance community. i'm all for promoting a positive body image but i don't like the obfuscation of certain things just because people are fragile and can have their feelings hurt. so yeah, tell society that it's fucked up to tear down people for their body. but don't then say 'besides, it's not like you can do anything about it'. that ain't cool.

i don't think there's anything wrong with saying 'look how you want to look, and don't let others objectify you and define your self-worth. but if you're interested, it's generally accepted that a healthy weight range for people of your height and age is so and so.'

There are better things to point to than a weight range though. Like, you sort of need to go to a doctor and get them measured though. I mean, you are sort of talking bmi, which isn't great for talking about individuals with different levels of activity, body fat percentages, and whatever.

I mean that healthy range is either going to include a lot of unhealthy people, exclude a lot of healthy ones, or both.

i'm not claiming that a chart can give you granular, nuanced data. there are plenty of varying body shapes and compositions, especially with athletes. and even amongst 'light' or heavy people there are of course other factors that can dominate systemic health. it's just shorthand- a broad range that can be useful. there are points of obvious morbid obesity- where regardless of your individual situation it's probably not advisable to weigh 300lbs at 5'5".

Antinumeric

I love SKFM.

He doesn't just have terrible opinions. He has terrible opinions so earnestly

Casual

how the hell did i manage to split my thumb open?

i havent moved from this seat for two hours

Organichu

redx: yes, i agree that weight can be a lot less important than other more individualized metrics (like bodyfat%, for instance). but it's the only really generalizable thing we have on the rubric. or i guess, the least complicated.

simonwolf

Casual wrote: »

how the hell did i manage to split my thumb open?

i havent moved from this seat for two hours

the metamorphosis begins

Casual

Antinumeric wrote: »

I love SKFM.

He doesn't just have terrible opinions. He has terrible opinions so earnestly

he is a riddle wrapped in an enigma

just when he's said something so lacking in foresight and empathy for his fellow man you think he's Mitt Romneys alt, you'll come across him in another thread on a different topic and he'll post a well put, intelligent argument that shows he is in his own way, out to improve the lot of his fellow man

he isn't a straight forward fuck you, got mine rich guy, he's far more complex than that

which is why i don't quite agree with the current policy of banning him from every thread he posts s descending opinion in

redx

Organichu wrote: »

redx: yes, i agree that weight can be a lot less important than other more individualized metrics (like bodyfat%, for instance). but it's the only really generalizable thing we have on the rubric. or i guess, the least complicated.

It the thing people can actually measure themselves and which people understand, which certainly lends some utility.

ronya

aren't men taller

for the same BMI they are still heavier

RMS Oceanic

My current BMI is 36.

To reach BMI category of "Overweight" I need to lose three and a half stone.

To reach "Normal" I'd need to lose six.

I can see the first happening, but not the second.

Casual

i was at 25 BMI last i checked

that probably isn't true anymore though

Abdhyius

ronya wrote: »

aren't men taller

for the same BMI they are still heavier

...yes?

ronya

bmi of 17.9

hrm

STATE OF THE ART ROBOT

SKFM just comes from too different a background than most of us. Like, when he posted "Man the annoying thing is when my parents gave me money when I was in college I got $100's and had to find a place to break them!" in response to someone complaining that college with no money was annoying. Like, he was not trying to be mean or anything, he just couldn't relate.

Abdhyius

BMI is overstated for athletic people, understated for people who ain't, afaik

Tav

Casual wrote: »

Tav wrote: »

Organichu wrote: »

Tav wrote: »

Antinumeric wrote: »

Organichu wrote: »

i don't think most models are too thin. i mean, maybe high couture parisian runway models with severe makeup, wearing pelicans made of pvc piping are too thin. but plenty of models are just tall, slender women without their ribs showing. plenty of room for slender ladies and curvy ladies and all.

i think when it comes to dangerously, obviously unhealthy thin women you end up with more emotionally victimized teenaged girls who are aspiring to be models than actual models.

Yeah i think this is a problem with the fashion industry.

Personally I find that there's a culture of fat acceptance that's far more widespread and dangerous. There are far more dangerously overweight people than there are dangerously underweight people. Not that the fashion industry is promoting it, but a lot of people seem to have the idea of "oh well, it's not their fault they're fat!" when really, in 99% of cases, it is. I'm saying this as a pretty big dude. Losing weight isn't particularly hard, all it takes is a bit of knowledge and dedication.

i disagree that it isn't particularly hard- for some people it's a lifelong battle that is harder than getting their college degree or maintaining their marriage or whatever. it can be everything for some people, and it's dreadful.

but i agree that i don't really like some of the attitudes of the fat acceptance community. i'm all for promoting a positive body image but i don't like the obfuscation of certain things just because people are fragile and can have their feelings hurt. so yeah, tell society that it's fucked up to tear down people for their body. but don't then say 'besides, it's not like you can do anything about it'. that ain't cool.

i don't think there's anything wrong with saying 'look how you want to look, and don't let others objectify you and define your self-worth. but if you're interested, it's generally accepted that a healthy weight range for people of your height and age is so and so.'

Yeah, not particularly hard probably wasn't the right term. It is a difficult thing to do, but there are a lot of resources available to do it. It's not this big mystery like a lot of people claim it is.

it's as hard as doing anything that requires consistent, long term appliction of motivation, effort and perseverance

which as it turns out, is pretty fucking hard for 90% of people

I'd say it's harder to get motivated for but easier to do, really

if you stopped going to work, that's be pretty hard to ignore because you stop having money
if you stop caring about exercising and eating, so what? Buy a bigger pair of pants

Work is what? 8 hours of your day? You can do a damn good workout in an hour.

my original point really should have said losing weight isn't complicated. Eat less, eat healthier and exercise more!

Organichu

i mean i can look at my weight and despite my relative tallness automatically discern 'this probably isn't great for me, losing some fat would be a swell idea'

i could also have my bodyfat hydrostatically tested and get measurements and have my blood profiles run but it's ok shorthand, i think, to say 'this is too many lbs i need to rip some off me'

Casual

ronya wrote: »

bmi of 17.9

hrm

eat

eat

*shoves cheez burger in Ronyas snout*

Abdhyius

my bmi is 20 or so. I guess. I haven't weighed myself in ages.

redx

I don't own a scale, and have been busting my ass getting into shape and eating a lot better. I lost like 2.5 inches off my waist, but in terms of weight that was 2 lbs. Place I'm now staying has a scale.

Bmi is 19.5.

ronya

STATE OF THE ART ROBOT wrote: »

SKFM just comes from too different a background than most of us. Like, when he posted "Man the annoying thing is when my parents gave me money when I was in college I got $100's and had to find a place to break them!" in response to someone complaining that college with no money was annoying. Like, he was not trying to be mean or anything, he just couldn't relate.

I think that was a joke

poshniallo

STATE OF THE ART ROBOT wrote: »

SKFM just comes from too different a background than most of us. Like, when he posted "Man the annoying thing is when my parents gave me money when I was in college I got $100's and had to find a place to break them!" in response to someone complaining that college with no money was annoying. Like, he was not trying to be mean or anything, he just couldn't relate.

You are being sarcastic, right?

Antinumeric

Casual wrote: »

Antinumeric wrote: »

I love SKFM.

He doesn't just have terrible opinions. He has terrible opinions so earnestly

he is a riddle wrapped in an enigma

just when he's said something so lacking in foresight and empathy for his fellow man you think he's Mitt Romneys alt, you'll come across him in another thread on a different topic and he'll post a well put, intelligent argument that shows he is in his own way, out to improve the lot of his fellow man

he isn't a straight forward fuck you, got mine rich guy, he's far more complex than that

which is why i don't quite agree with the current policy of banning him from every thread he posts s descending opinion in

I agree entirely. I just wish he'd grasp the difference between "should" and "forced to". That seems to be the main source of arguments.

RMS Oceanic

Putting aside the fact that I'm fat, I am also broad shouldered and have a generally large frame. I suspect that getting to a "normal" BMI would have me actually looking underweight.

Also I am at the gym and doing some weights, so that obviously upsets the equation somewhat, even if the main effect so far is I can feel my upper body muscles becoming more toned underneath the flab.

Kagera

Antinumeric wrote: »

Kagera wrote: »

I used to have a bmi of 63.

I wonder what it is now.

lower?

A bit considering I went from 481 to 220

Organichu

i am gonna look at pictures of cute dogs brb

Casual

Tav wrote: »

Casual wrote: »

Tav wrote: »

Organichu wrote: »

Tav wrote: »

Antinumeric wrote: »

Organichu wrote: »

i don't think most models are too thin. i mean, maybe high couture parisian runway models with severe makeup, wearing pelicans made of pvc piping are too thin. but plenty of models are just tall, slender women without their ribs showing. plenty of room for slender ladies and curvy ladies and all.

i think when it comes to dangerously, obviously unhealthy thin women you end up with more emotionally victimized teenaged girls who are aspiring to be models than actual models.

Yeah i think this is a problem with the fashion industry.

Personally I find that there's a culture of fat acceptance that's far more widespread and dangerous. There are far more dangerously overweight people than there are dangerously underweight people. Not that the fashion industry is promoting it, but a lot of people seem to have the idea of "oh well, it's not their fault they're fat!" when really, in 99% of cases, it is. I'm saying this as a pretty big dude. Losing weight isn't particularly hard, all it takes is a bit of knowledge and dedication.

i disagree that it isn't particularly hard- for some people it's a lifelong battle that is harder than getting their college degree or maintaining their marriage or whatever. it can be everything for some people, and it's dreadful.

but i agree that i don't really like some of the attitudes of the fat acceptance community. i'm all for promoting a positive body image but i don't like the obfuscation of certain things just because people are fragile and can have their feelings hurt. so yeah, tell society that it's fucked up to tear down people for their body. but don't then say 'besides, it's not like you can do anything about it'. that ain't cool.

i don't think there's anything wrong with saying 'look how you want to look, and don't let others objectify you and define your self-worth. but if you're interested, it's generally accepted that a healthy weight range for people of your height and age is so and so.'

Yeah, not particularly hard probably wasn't the right term. It is a difficult thing to do, but there are a lot of resources available to do it. It's not this big mystery like a lot of people claim it is.

it's as hard as doing anything that requires consistent, long term appliction of motivation, effort and perseverance

which as it turns out, is pretty fucking hard for 90% of people

I'd say it's harder to get motivated for but easier to do, really

if you stopped going to work, that's be pretty hard to ignore because you stop having money
if you stop caring about exercising and eating, so what? Buy a bigger pair of pants

Work is what? 8 hours of your day? You can do a damn good workout in an hour.

my original point really should have said losing weight isn't complicated. Eat less, eat healthier and exercise more!

everything is easy on paper

how to become a millionaire

>go to business school and learn investment backing
>go to NYC stock exchange
>buy and sell shit
>PROFT!

ronya

I dropped down to 58kg before I ate a large-ish early lunch just now

RMS Oceanic

Kagera wrote: »

Antinumeric wrote: »

Kagera wrote: »

I used to have a bmi of 63.

I wonder what it is now.

lower?

A bit considering I went from 481 to 220

Depends on your height, but for my height (6'1") 220 is 29.

Tav

I guess after losing weight, I don't really have sympathy for fat people

before I thought it was this really hard, complicated thing that would have me be the source of ridicule

but really it is manageable, especially now with the whole host of information that the internet provides wouldn't of been readily available 10-15 years ago!

people get frustrated when they don't get immediate results, but they certainly didn't become obese overnight

Abdhyius

RMS Oceanic wrote: »

Putting aside the fact that I'm fat, I am also broad shouldered and have a generally large frame. I suspect that getting to a "normal" BMI would have me actually looking underweight.

Also I am at the gym and doing some weights, so that obviously upsets the equation somewhat, even if the main effect so far is I can feel my upper body muscles becoming more toned underneath the flab.

normal BMI is between 18,5 and 30

which is a pretty large range

ronya

it needs to be emphasized in world history classes that the modern distrust of secret treaties is very much a recent innovation as far as humanity goes

ronya

and MFN is obviously designed to encourage a continued participation in the framework that makes MFN possible

Casual

ronya wrote: »

I dropped down to 58kg before I ate a large-ish early lunch just now

Ronya

if we ever meet i am going to feed you

i'mma frog march you to a steakhouse and we're not leaving until you are a reasonable sized person

RMS Oceanic

Abdhyius wrote: »

RMS Oceanic wrote: »

Putting aside the fact that I'm fat, I am also broad shouldered and have a generally large frame. I suspect that getting to a "normal" BMI would have me actually looking underweight.

Also I am at the gym and doing some weights, so that obviously upsets the equation somewhat, even if the main effect so far is I can feel my upper body muscles becoming more toned underneath the flab.

normal BMI is between 18,5 and 30

which is a pretty large range

The chart I'm consulting has Underweight (<18), Normal (18-25), Overweight (25-30) and Obese (30+). I think i can reach Overweight, but I'm doubtful about Normal.

Abdhyius

RMS Oceanic wrote: »

Abdhyius wrote: »

RMS Oceanic wrote: »

Putting aside the fact that I'm fat, I am also broad shouldered and have a generally large frame. I suspect that getting to a "normal" BMI would have me actually looking underweight.

Also I am at the gym and doing some weights, so that obviously upsets the equation somewhat, even if the main effect so far is I can feel my upper body muscles becoming more toned underneath the flab.

normal BMI is between 18,5 and 30

which is a pretty large range

The chart I'm consulting has Underweight (<18), Normal (18-25), Overweight (25-30) and Obese (30+). I think i can reach Overweight, but I'm doubtful about Normal.

oh, yeah, sorry, typo

RMS Oceanic

Could be worse. I used to have a BMI of 45.

Organichu

i've never in my life met a fat person who hasn't tried on some level to lose weight. maybe some only give it a casual effort, but they almost all try and a great many of them try very hard and do a lot of research and work hard and just can't manage to keep up the effort.

it is really strange to me to have no sympathy for them just because they failed at something that 'can' be done. lots of things are doable. lots are also really hard and incredibly distressing.

Abdhyius

speaking of food I haven't had any today. Later.

RMS Oceanic

Changing the conversation to numerical numbers with medical significance, according to these average blood sugars I got from correlating my reader's results, when I go in for my Hb1AC test next month, it should roughly be 6-6.5%, which is higher than someone without beetus, but is indicitave of good control.