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[Diablo 3] Reports of the Economy's death were greatly exaggerated

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  • SkutSkutSkutSkut Registered User regular
    There's also that 30% bonus thingy for 4 people, was getting 1026% bonus exp.
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  • MatzMatz Registered User regular
    Matz wrote: »
    RandomEngy wrote: »
    As for 1.0.8 changes, man you get EXP SO FAST. Was doing some MP9 with BRT and Hex and got like a third of the way to 72 in like a half hour.

    Nice. This is going to be good. Definitely going to be keen to do high MP party games.

    What XP changes were there? Is it only for the paragon levels or whatever?

    XP multiplies the more people in the game.
    1367739794ae.png

    Lose: The opposite of win
    Loose: Your mum
    _J_ wrote: »
    I imagine that I make more money from D3 than I would make sucking dick. But I wouldn't want to spend either my D3 or dick sucking money on gear.
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    I don't know what NV stacks are.

    If they're gonna do the rollback they need to just do it. I was all set to actually play for the first time in a year today, before all this craziness started and now Im not sure if I do play if I won't just lose the progress anyway.
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  • MatzMatz Registered User regular
    SkutSkut wrote: »
    There's also that 30% bonus thingy for 4 people, was getting 1026% bonus exp.

    Does that kind of make having a helm ruby and/or hellfire ring somewhat irrelevant?
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    Lose: The opposite of win
    Loose: Your mum
    _J_ wrote: »
    I imagine that I make more money from D3 than I would make sucking dick. But I wouldn't want to spend either my D3 or dick sucking money on gear.
  • RozRoz Registered User regular
    Roz wrote: »
    in before "always on" etc etc.

    oh boy

    I dont care about it. But you know it's coming.
  • HexDexHexDex Registered User regular
    I was getting 1101% bonus exp at 5 valor stacks in a full game at MP9. Good times!
    If you are reading this add me.
    D3: Caretta#1196
  • MatzMatz Registered User regular
    HexDex wrote: »
    I was getting 1101% bonus exp at 5 valor stacks in a full game at MP9. Good times!

    Does the helm ruby/hellfire ring also get "multiplied"? Because there isn't a huge amount of difference between say 1100% bonus exp and 1070% bonus exp if you take out a helm ruby (or whatever).
    1367739794ae.png

    Lose: The opposite of win
    Loose: Your mum
    _J_ wrote: »
    I imagine that I make more money from D3 than I would make sucking dick. But I wouldn't want to spend either my D3 or dick sucking money on gear.
  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie gem flipping just to get by stack your billions till they get sky highRegistered User regular
    edited May 2013
    dupers got banned?

    yaaaap dupers banned
    Big Red Tie on
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    And it adds up. Which is why I am saying what I'm saying about the financial obligation on their part. A rollback would be as expensive as fuck because they simply can't not refund people their RMAH spendings; particularly since you can just do instant purchases from credit cards and bypass the Wallet entirely.

    Yes, they can definitely and absolutely not refund people for RMAH spendings. At most, they might have to give you Blizzbucks in the amount you spent. They don't need to refund shit. That's the joy of the "virtual" economy, from Steam to iTunes, to Diablo. It's all funbucks the second you swipe your card, nothing exists, and they own everything...forever.

    We can debate until the cows come home as to whether they would just not refund people (and yes, I mean to honest-to-god credit cards). I'm saying that under their ToS they absolutely 100% could. And honestly, if the alternative is to allow eleventy trillion duped gold into the economy, this is preferable. Like I said, worst-case they can give you Blizzbucks in the amount you ran your VISA for. And if you try to charge back they can just ban you.

    Call it a coin flip which is worse PR....what I'm describing, or letting duping on this scale stand in a "real money" game.
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Also, as far as expenses go don't forget to factor in the potential precipitous drop in willing RMAH customers when they realize Blizzard doesn't really give a fuck about duping.
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    ban train's gonna be running all night long
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    mcdermott wrote: »
    And it adds up. Which is why I am saying what I'm saying about the financial obligation on their part. A rollback would be as expensive as fuck because they simply can't not refund people their RMAH spendings; particularly since you can just do instant purchases from credit cards and bypass the Wallet entirely.

    Yes, they can definitely and absolutely not refund people for RMAH spendings. At most, they might have to give you Blizzbucks in the amount you spent. They don't need to refund shit. That's the joy of the "virtual" economy, from Steam to iTunes, to Diablo. It's all funbucks the second you swipe your card, nothing exists, and they own everything...forever.

    We can debate until the cows come home as to whether they would just not refund people (and yes, I mean to honest-to-god credit cards). I'm saying that under their ToS they absolutely 100% could. And honestly, if the alternative is to allow eleventy trillion duped gold into the economy, this is preferable. Like I said, worst-case they can give you Blizzbucks in the amount you ran your VISA for. And if you try to charge back they can just ban you.

    Call it a coin flip which is worse PR....what I'm describing, or letting duping on this scale stand in a "real money" game.

    It's not funbucks if you didn't spend funbucks.

    If you used your real money, it's real money.

    And every single state in the united states has laws dictating refunds on any purchases; there's no company on earth that can actually get away with 'no refunds', even if they state that's the case to avoid as many as possible. It's like those dump trucks carrying rocks saying they're not responsible for any damage done to your car. They are, and they will and have paid. They just put those there to avoid as many complaints and payouts as possible. They are not legally binding by any stretch and they don't hold up in court. Incidentally I'm fairly sure that no ToS/EULA has actually held up when challenged either...

    I don't think you're getting it. If you put money in the wallet sure. They don't have to do anything for you, I guess. They will and if they don't on a large scale they will be sued and it will fly; but if you pay out of your paypal and/or credit card?

    Yeah. That's real money. It's not theirs to play with. I don't think you actually know what you're talking about in regards to actual real hard cashmoney.
    The Dude With Herpes on
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  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie gem flipping just to get by stack your billions till they get sky highRegistered User regular
    oh man ms. jackson playing on inigo's channel

    combined with their tears

    it's great
  • SavantSavant Registered User regular
    I tried out the new firebats today. The big bat rune looks like it still uses the old value, so is probably crap. I was rather underwhelmed by the vampire bats rune with lifesteal, it felt like it was just tickling monsters in a 4 player mp7 game.

    Then I tried cloud of bats, the last rune. Oh my god. You become a little whirlpool of death with that one, and regular monsters would just melt on crits, even on higher mp multiplayer games.

    You basically become a melee WD using that rune, and are stuck immobile with a short range AOE, but it does such a ridiculous amount of damage that I think it may be worth it anyways. Like I would see a decent number of crits over 100k damage using a skorn and a fast tick rate, and high tens of thousands otherwise. I'd really want to try mixing it with a CM wizard.

    It's a pretty risky spell though, and really dependent on good use of spirit walk. And reflect damage is...bad. I'd recommend the extra life and spirit walk cooldown skills. The damaging rune on soul harvest combos nicely with it too.
  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie gem flipping just to get by stack your billions till they get sky highRegistered User regular
    yeah with a CM wizard, it's probably completely viable
  • Garret DoriganGarret Dorigan Registered User regular
    Savant wrote: »
    I tried out the new firebats today. The big bat rune looks like it still uses the old value, so is probably crap. I was rather underwhelmed by the vampire bats rune with lifesteal, it felt like it was just tickling monsters in a 4 player mp7 game.

    Then I tried cloud of bats, the last rune. Oh my god. You become a little whirlpool of death with that one, and regular monsters would just melt on crits, even on higher mp multiplayer games.

    You basically become a melee WD using that rune, and are stuck immobile with a short range AOE, but it does such a ridiculous amount of damage that I think it may be worth it anyways. Like I would see a decent number of crits over 100k damage using a skorn and a fast tick rate, and high tens of thousands otherwise. I'd really want to try mixing it with a CM wizard.

    It's a pretty risky spell though, and really dependent on good use of spirit walk. And reflect damage is...bad. I'd recommend the extra life and spirit walk cooldown skills. The damaging rune on soul harvest combos nicely with it too.

    Did you test Plague Bats? Didn't it get a buff as well?

    Also, just tried out my Sleet Storm wiz alt. I echo your sentiment on Cloud here. Wizzys have a bit more melee range viability overall, it seems, though, so I don't know how they pan out against each other.
    "Never Hit"
  • RoloRolo Registered User regular
    Savant wrote: »
    I tried out the new firebats today. The big bat rune looks like it still uses the old value, so is probably crap. I was rather underwhelmed by the vampire bats rune with lifesteal, it felt like it was just tickling monsters in a 4 player mp7 game.

    Then I tried cloud of bats, the last rune. Oh my god. You become a little whirlpool of death with that one, and regular monsters would just melt on crits, even on higher mp multiplayer games.

    You basically become a melee WD using that rune, and are stuck immobile with a short range AOE, but it does such a ridiculous amount of damage that I think it may be worth it anyways. Like I would see a decent number of crits over 100k damage using a skorn and a fast tick rate, and high tens of thousands otherwise. I'd really want to try mixing it with a CM wizard.

    It's a pretty risky spell though, and really dependent on good use of spirit walk. And reflect damage is...bad. I'd recommend the extra life and spirit walk cooldown skills. The damaging rune on soul harvest combos nicely with it too.

    yeah, I can crit for well over a mil with cloud of bats, and it ticks quite fast as well

    no idea what support skills to use that would make it viable though



  • IncindiumIncindium Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Damn I thought I had my bases covered by buying enough flawless squares to recraft all the gems I sold. The one thing I forgot to do was send the Rubies to my stash though... Doh! With the AH down I can't craft the replacements.
    Incindium on
  • SavantSavant Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Savant wrote: »
    I tried out the new firebats today. The big bat rune looks like it still uses the old value, so is probably crap. I was rather underwhelmed by the vampire bats rune with lifesteal, it felt like it was just tickling monsters in a 4 player mp7 game.

    Then I tried cloud of bats, the last rune. Oh my god. You become a little whirlpool of death with that one, and regular monsters would just melt on crits, even on higher mp multiplayer games.

    You basically become a melee WD using that rune, and are stuck immobile with a short range AOE, but it does such a ridiculous amount of damage that I think it may be worth it anyways. Like I would see a decent number of crits over 100k damage using a skorn and a fast tick rate, and high tens of thousands otherwise. I'd really want to try mixing it with a CM wizard.

    It's a pretty risky spell though, and really dependent on good use of spirit walk. And reflect damage is...bad. I'd recommend the extra life and spirit walk cooldown skills. The damaging rune on soul harvest combos nicely with it too.

    Did you test Plague Bats? Didn't it get a buff as well?

    Also, just tried out my Sleet Storm wiz alt. I echo your sentiment on Cloud here. Wizzys have a bit more melee range viability overall, it seems, though, so I don't know how they pan out against each other.

    Plague bats got buffed too, but I didn't test it. The plague bats rune is worded differently than cloud of bats, but plague bats says it scales up over a not listed period of time to 578% weapon damage.

    Cloud of bats starts at 501% weapon damage, and scales upwards from there. It says 20% bonus per second maxing at 100%, and I'm not sure if that means 601% or 1002% weapon damage at full power, but either way it hits like a truck. It starts out better than a double hit with bears, and may scale even higher than a triple hit with bears depending upon how the bonus works. I'd have to check again to make sure, but it seemed like cloud also isn't a continuous dot like the baseline bats or disintegrate, but more of a pulsing AOE.

    The mana cost is really bad if you stop and start the spell a lot, but I didn't have many mana problems if I could stay still and channel, using a skorn and full zuni set. In practice I was having less mana trouble with the bat cloud than I was with bearspam prepatch.
    Savant on
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    Yeah I'm just kinda waiting for the AH at this point to regem. My gems were fairly low level, though they did make me a few million; which ended up being paltry compared to what I ended up making today.

    So apparently tons of people got banned. AH is still down, dunno if they've decided what to do re: rollback.

    Still kinda waiting for official word before I put time in.
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  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie gem flipping just to get by stack your billions till they get sky highRegistered User regular
    yeah, i wouldn't bother progressing for now until we get an official response

  • SavantSavant Registered User regular
    Rolo wrote: »
    Savant wrote: »
    I tried out the new firebats today. The big bat rune looks like it still uses the old value, so is probably crap. I was rather underwhelmed by the vampire bats rune with lifesteal, it felt like it was just tickling monsters in a 4 player mp7 game.

    Then I tried cloud of bats, the last rune. Oh my god. You become a little whirlpool of death with that one, and regular monsters would just melt on crits, even on higher mp multiplayer games.

    You basically become a melee WD using that rune, and are stuck immobile with a short range AOE, but it does such a ridiculous amount of damage that I think it may be worth it anyways. Like I would see a decent number of crits over 100k damage using a skorn and a fast tick rate, and high tens of thousands otherwise. I'd really want to try mixing it with a CM wizard.

    It's a pretty risky spell though, and really dependent on good use of spirit walk. And reflect damage is...bad. I'd recommend the extra life and spirit walk cooldown skills. The damaging rune on soul harvest combos nicely with it too.

    yeah, I can crit for well over a mil with cloud of bats, and it ticks quite fast as well

    no idea what support skills to use that would make it viable though



    I might have been critting for over a mil too now that you mention it, I didn't look extremely closely at the big yellow numbers. I just saw that when they came up, smaller monsters in a 4 player mp6 game would just explode into flaming chunks, and bigger ones would have huge sections of their health bar ripped away.

    Probably want to use all the cooldown reduction passives for spirit walk possible to maximize the uptime. I had dogs and mana sacrifice as a holdover from my bears build, but other stuff could probably work. I'm thinking it is probably best for multiplayer if someone else can pick up the CC slack, but you could maybe throw in something like hex or mass confuse to help out the team.
  • RoloRolo Registered User regular
    Yeah, I tried it with some of my proc gear, but the skill doesn't make those tick at all. Not sure if the damage tick rate increases with attack speed either.



  • RoloRolo Registered User regular
    LnEeiGD.png

    heh

    kinda glad I missed this madness

  • Big Red TieBig Red Tie gem flipping just to get by stack your billions till they get sky highRegistered User regular
    i dunno it was fun!

  • themightypuckthemightypuck Registered User regular
    Gold just doesn't work. Not sure how to fix it. If you aren't into arbitrage or playing the AH just do everything on the RMAH and pretend the GAH doesn't exist. Of course this is dangerous if there are artificial floors but you can keep track of those and behave accordingly.
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    Rolo wrote: »
    LnEeiGD.png

    heh

    kinda glad I missed this madness

    Your avatar makes this even funnier.

    Those emeralds were up to like 150million+ at one point.
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  • _J__J_ Pedant Registered User regular
    I am so sad that I missed the RMAH craziness. It took off just as I left to go be sociable with friends.

    This is what I get for leaving the house. GRUMP!
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    Every hour that passes leads me to believe that the bans are all that'll happen really, maybe some peoples gold will mysteriously disappear. I'm thinking a rollback is off the table.

    I'm actually starting to wonder if they're going to comment on it at all.
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  • NWKNWK Registered User regular
    Madness. I wonder if things went batshit on the EU server too. When I went to bed last night, (curse this fragile mortal shell), the servers were going down for the patch.
  • SavantSavant Registered User regular
    They just posted a message which doesn't say much that we don't know (there was a dupe bug and so forth), but they said they might do a rollback, but haven't decided yet. So it looks like they are prepared to do so if they think they need to.
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    Still think it's not gonna happen, the rollback. They should have taken the servers down entirely when this happened.

    But now people have been playing, and who knows how many legitimately dropped items would be completely lost by people totally unconnected to all this.

    They've left the play servers up too long.
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  • DacDac Registered User regular
    So I was doing just fine with Monster Power 2 on Act 1 pre-patch and I just got my face raped by the first large-ish group of guys I encountered. Huh.
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  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah Registered User regular
    I heard they started banning players. Indigo had his account's perma-banned according to his stream. To be honest I think a rollback isn't exactly necessary, but there's just way too much extra gold out on the market now.
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    It's entirely possible that a lot of the gold that was duped was still sitting in the dupers accounts and/or in the AH prior to the AH shutting down and they could potentially mitigate a lot of problem with the bannings alone. My understanding (again, haven't played in a year) is that gold was becoming effectively worthless anyway so this just sped up an inevitability; and might force Blizzard to figure out a solution to that problem; because a simple rollback won't stop never ending inflation of endless potential gold (WoW has only partially mitigated this by not having a RMAH and putting in massive gold sinks, but even then more and more players are sitting on piles of gold).

    It just ends the day with some people who wouldn't have otherwise had access to much gold, having some (i.e. me), but not enough to hurt anyone. If anything, shit, if I can keep that gold and kit out even one character I might actually start playing more; so it's a win for Blizzard there, I suppose, if they don't do a rollback.

    But yeah, bans were starting to go out awhile ago.

    Some folks on the forums are claiming they're seeing refunds on paypal; but I'm not sure of the accuracy of that information. Even if they did; it could be just duped gold purchases specifically that are being refunded?
    The Dude With Herpes on
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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    It's already too late to roll back every character to pre-patch. If they were going to do that they would have done it the instant they took the AH down to minimize the impact. Worst case they'll revert all AH transactions.
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Reverting all AH transactions without doing a rollback would be a worse move than just a rollback, honestly. I can't imagine how many people unsocketed their gear to cash in.
    The Dude With Herpes on
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  • SavantSavant Registered User regular
    Well, some of the shitheads doing the duping were just buying everything left and right, particularly anything at the 2 billion price cap. So the duped gold has spread substantially out of the accounts of the dupers and into the wider economy. It'll totally kill the D3 economy if they don't do anything to undo the mess. Undoing all the AH transactions might be enough if they can actually do just that, but that might make some people go into negative gold if they spent proceeds of smaller legitimate auctions.

    Just imagine what would happen in the real world if there was a way found to trivially counterfeit dollars and there were trucks going down the street throwing out perfect counterfeit 100 dollars bills by the bag full. It'd be chaotic.
  • JRoseyJRosey Registered User regular
    Servers shutting down. I smell rollback...
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  • HooverFanHooverFan Registered User regular
    They're taking down the servers for a patch right now
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