[Mechwarrior:Online] Weapon Rebalancing on the 21st. Oosik Sigs on P19

Delphinidaes

TOGSolid wrote: »

At this point I think it's safe to slap the ever loving shit out of anyone that claims that PGI doesn't listen/doesn't care/lies/etc. There's just no excuse for that level of goosery anymore.

I like to think that stuff like this gives people an insight into how complicated these games can be, and hopefully before they make a "WTF why does it take them so long to fix a simple HUD issue?" that they may instead take a moment and realize that a lot goes in to even something as "simple" as a HUD.

Of course in reality those people tend to just gloss over explanations like this in their rush to their next absurd statement to make but I can dream

Stabbity Style

Also, after reading that, those guys deserve a pizza party or something. Like, holy crap, I'm not a programmer, but that sounded particularly difficult to find.

Mvrck

Stabbity Style wrote: »

Also, after reading that, those guys deserve a pizza party or something. Like, holy crap, I'm not a programmer, but that sounded particularly difficult to find.

Yeah, that sounds just fucking awful. Some of the shit I've been dealing with in Drupal has me running in circles, shaking my head going "what the fuck is wrong here?" (For example, when doing a field call last night, it would randomly break midway through. In theory in PHP you should be able to call it like:

Variable = Field->Subfield1->Subfield2->Subfield3->etc. Instead after 1, it would break and require the call to be formatted as Field->Subfield1->[Subfield2][3][etc.] to retrieve the actual data value.

As far as I can tell, there is absolutely no reason for that to be happening, and really error code or indication of what it would be (if you have the call formatted wrong, it just prints out an empty string). This is a fairly large bug with a fairly simple, widely adopted language, and it was still baffling and hard to diagnose.

PGI is trying to find and fix bugs that maybe one or two other development teams have even a chance at seeing, working through probably hundreds of thousands of lines of code. I'm guessing the only reason one of them hasn't gone on a murderous rampage at the Crytek offices is the general inability to clear customs with firearms.

3clipse

I have been saying that for months! :P

BillGates

Wow that HUD bug really was in the core of the games internal structure itself, not even on PGI's level. The libraries themselves were causing these issues, something that libraries just don't do. Scaleform and STL Port are literally used in almost all graphic intensive application that requires user input on a significant level (Games, 3D modeling, Photoshop tools, etc).

I can see why it took them so long to discover it, libraries are literally the last thing you check for with errors.

Mvrck

Actually, the most hilarious thing, is how they found other super critical "wtf is going on here" bugs while doing this...that weren't at all the cause of any issues.

BillGates

For reference, here is Scaleform from Autodesk with a quick video of how Scaleform works and interacts in games, specifically.

Edit - If you watch the video, the narrator talks about how Dead Space did this UI, its important to note that Scaleform was NOT used for Dead Space. If you want a list of games that use Scaleform, refer to the wikipedia article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaleform

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKDuzVbi50Q

tuxkamen

Mvrck wrote: »

http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/117769-hud-bug-brief/

The technical breakdown of things. More. Please.

I think I need to fan myself after reading that (because I'm in the middle of trying to bore down on something similarly obfuscated).

3clipse

We should all take this as an object lesson going forward: sometimes this shit really, really is in the bedrock of the game and almost impossible to find, so the devs deserve some slack.

HydroSqueegee

i feel as if ive developed some sort of Stockholm syndrome with the hud bugs. farewell bugs.

ts like your kid growing up and moving into the big scary world.

ill miss you, you random quirky irritations.

Delphinidaes

3clipse wrote: »

We should all take this as an object lesson going forward: sometimes this shit really, really is in the bedrock of the game and almost impossible to find, so the devs deserve some slack.

I think people get the idea "Of course things can be hard to find" but maybe not the true understanding of just how hard. Like when you mention that something affects a million people, they get the idea, they understand that a million people is a "lot", but can't actually wrap their head around what 1 million people actually looks like, and the sheer scope of that number.

Just as an example of course. There is a disconnect between the two.

Erlkönig

So I've been dinking around some more, trying to squeeze a little more usefulness out of my CTF-4X. What I've found is that quad-AC2, while making a satisfying sound, requires more ammo than I'm happy with to bring down anything bigger than a Cicada. Here's what I've come up with (as soon as I can get the cbills to buy them, I'm going to get the mandatory DHSes to keep myself from overheating every two kills), but could use some feedback on the build: Navarone [CTF-4X]: 2xUAC/5, 2xAC/2, SLAS, 200STD, Endo

Xandar

The problem is, the bug wasn't in their code. Which speaking from experience is: a) typical and b) at least 10X as hard to find as your own fuck-ups. Detailed posts like that definitly get them major points in my book though as it shows just how dirty fixing this shit is....

TOGSolid

I just noticed the Blackjack looks like a baby Jager wearing a swim ring:

BillGates

To all those interested,

Tonight at 9 PM EST I will be streaming Mechwarrior Online Fixed HUD Warrior Online on the official Oosik stream located at http://outreachnews.net/stream

Come watch as I slaughter and sometimes be slaughtered. Hopefully more of the former!

3clipse

The Blackjack looks AMAZING.

grouch993

I see zero difference in the ItemStats.xml file. If they made any flamer changes they are not reflected in the file.

Gaslight

I am pretty positive they didn't do anything this time but the HUD fix. It was never billed as anything else, was it?

AvalonGuard

grouch993 wrote: »

I see zero difference in the ItemStats.xml file. If they made any flamer changes they are not reflected in the file.

The balance changes mentioned for the flamer I am pretty sure are for the patch on the 21st.

Delphinidaes

What tonnage range is the Blackjack in? It looks cool and I've got a good amount of cbills saved up. Might be fun to pick up.

HydroSqueegee

Erlkönig wrote: »

So I've been dinking around some more, trying to squeeze a little more usefulness out of my CTF-4X. What I've found is that quad-AC2, while making a satisfying sound, requires more ammo than I'm happy with to bring down anything bigger than a Cicada. Here's what I've come up with (as soon as I can get the cbills to buy them, I'm going to get the mandatory DHSes to keep myself from overheating every two kills), but could use some feedback on the build: Navarone [CTF-4X]: 2xUAC/5, 2xAC/2, SLAS, 200STD, Endo

too slow to be effective. you need to be somewhat mobile to reposition where the action is and make yourself useful. the 4X NEEDS an XL255 to be useful. toss in 4 AC5s and 2ML.
alternately 2 AC10s or 2 Gauss.

trust me. im a 4Xpert.

AvalonGuard

Delphinidaes wrote: »

What tonnage range is the Blackjack in? It looks cool and I've got a good amount of cbills saved up. Might be fun to pick up.

Blackjack is 45 tons, probably heavy on the ballistic hard points.

kaliyama

The BJ is 45 tons. The stock models are light-armored and jump jets. I would expect the BJ-1 Blackjack (2 AC2, 4 MLs), the BJ-2 (2 ERLL, 4 Streak 2s), and the BJ-3 Blackjack (2 PPCs, 4 MLs).

Spoit

So, which HUD bug did they fix? The repeated text one? The IFF one? One of the other ones?

HydroSqueegee

Delphinidaes wrote: »

What tonnage range is the Blackjack in? It looks cool and I've got a good amount of cbills saved up. Might be fun to pick up.

i got burned on the trebuchet. ill wait and see how the Blackjack does.

HydroSqueegee

Spoit wrote: »

So, which HUD bug did they fix? The repeated text one? The IFF one? One of the other ones?

ALL of them

Erlkönig

HydroSqueegee wrote: »

Erlkönig wrote: »

So I've been dinking around some more, trying to squeeze a little more usefulness out of my CTF-4X. What I've found is that quad-AC2, while making a satisfying sound, requires more ammo than I'm happy with to bring down anything bigger than a Cicada. Here's what I've come up with (as soon as I can get the cbills to buy them, I'm going to get the mandatory DHSes to keep myself from overheating every two kills), but could use some feedback on the build: Navarone [CTF-4X]: 2xUAC/5, 2xAC/2, SLAS, 200STD, Endo

too slow to be effective. you need to be somewhat mobile to reposition where the action is and make yourself useful. the 4X NEEDS an XL255 to be useful. toss in 4 AC5s and 2ML.
alternately 2 AC10s or 2 Gauss.

trust me. im a 4Xpert.

I've usually been pretty wary about putting an XL in anything that has huge panels for ST sections...but I might need to shove in a spare XL in order to actually get some semblance of mobility on this platform.

CarbonFire

HydroSqueegee wrote: »

Spoit wrote: »

So, which HUD bug did they fix? The repeated text one? The IFF one? One of the other ones?

ALL of them

Yeah, they were all related to the same bugged function call related to Scaleform (Flash UI engine) and how it interacts with CryEngine.

Delphinidaes

Spoit wrote: »

So, which HUD bug did they fix? The repeated text one? The IFF one? One of the other ones?

The bug in question basically cause the HUD to create a random error. So this fix should actually resolve all HUD issues.

HydroSqueegee wrote: »

Delphinidaes wrote: »

What tonnage range is the Blackjack in? It looks cool and I've got a good amount of cbills saved up. Might be fun to pick up.

i got burned on the trebuchet. ill wait and see how the Blackjack does.

Meh it's just cbills, and I like my Trebuchet

Nips

TOGSolid wrote: »

I just noticed the Blackjack looks like a baby Jager wearing a swim ring:

Dawwwwww. 8-> It makes me want to call him "Tubby", but in a cute-but-not-condescending way.

And insofar as that crazy bug-squashing-explaining post: Holy Crap. I mean, I just gave PGI some money last weekend, and now I want to keep throwing money at them for things like this.

Campy

Note to self, do not put an XL in the Blackjack. Those side torsos!

m!ttens

The classic Blackjack comes with a standard 180 engine. That's a pre-speed-tweak speed of 64.8 kph. Of course you're going to have to make sacrifices if you want to put lots of heavy weapons on a 45 ton mech. The high arm placement coupled with the lack of lower arm and hand actuators should make for some interesting and varied builds.

I'm curious to see how many people decide to get BJs on the day they're released :winky:

Gaslight

kaliyama wrote: »

The BJ is 45 tons. The stock models are light-armored and jump jets. I would expect the BJ-1 Blackjack (2 AC2, 4 MLs), the BJ-2 (2 ERLL, 4 Streak 2s), and the BJ-3 Blackjack (2 PPCs, 4 MLs).

Should also be noted all of the stock models are SLOW for the weight, 64kp/h. That's going to be the biggest handicap of the chassis.

Stabbity Style

Ugh, TOG, I'm reading that announcement reaction thread you posted in. Ugh.

Edit: Also, the new sigs are fucking with my eyes on their forum. That dark blue is doing something weird with that white.

Kusmeroglu

I appreciate mechs that have easily created nicknames. Remember, you saw KablamaJack here first. (UltraJack is quite amusing too) ((wonder what we can use HiJack for-- poptarters?))

Gaslight

If there was any possible positive to the HUD bugs, it was that going into battle with a less-than-fully-functional 'mech did sometimes give a little lore-appropriate flavor of being in a universe where everybody lost the know-how to build all the really cool stuff a few hundred years ago and shit just randomly breaks when your techs haven't said enough toaster prayers while installing the spit and baling wire, and you just have to do the best you can.

Actually some guys on the official forums (facetiously) put it pretty well:

I always thought they could "fix it" by simply adding a message during startup..

"Initialiasiing Heads Up Computer. 8% chance of failure detected in internal systems"

"All systems not nominal!" - mech systems damaged by drunk mechanic

Only to really be true to the lore, it wouldn't just be parts of your HUD spazzing out, it would be more like...you engine heat sinks need an overhaul so some of them only work at half capacity, and the armor on your left torso had to be patched in a hurry after that lucky AC/10 hit so it's not as resilient as it ought to be, and and and...

Syngyne

Ripper Jack
Colby Jack
Jumping Jack
Car Jack
Phone Jack

Syngyne

also about a million fellatio references

Stabbity Style

I support calling poptarting Blackjacks Jumping Jacks.

Docshifty

BlackJack with MGs.

The Biter.