Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.

[chat] going one way, people another

11415171920100

Posts

  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Invited to spend the 16th with Salem Missionary Association.

    Hah. Hah. Uh, noooope.
    xlh6c3.png
  • simonwolfsimonwolf Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Invited to spend the 16th with Salem Missionary Association.

    Hah. Hah. Uh, noooope.

    Maybe they mean the position
    turtlesig.jpg
  • ronyaronya hmmm over there!Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    the balance problems of hon have demonstrated the problems with trying to clean up game-engine-bug-driven 'features'

    the critical strike and orb stuff was always the most egregious problems but hon trying to fix them broke too many things

    so dota2 has settled for resolutely retaining all but the most problematic bits
    ronya on
  • AldoAldo Registered User regular
    When's the best time to submit something to Imgur? I've put in some effort to get more people excited about Geoguessr.
    GW2 tag: Aldo.6019
    Free MMO Überlist
    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • ElldrenElldren Registered User regular
    Calixtus wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Calixtus wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    srsly though wtf is up with dota 2 none of this makes any sense
    The description I was given of DoTA made it seem like something you play if you hate yourself.

    DoTA2 might be carrying on that tradition.

    I play League of Legends quite regularly

    most of the mechanics I'm reading about seem like baroque nonsense (ie denial being actually shooting your own towers/creeps/friendly players, secret shops, eating trees, couriers, etc)
    "I don't understand why there has to be so many different pieces in chess?"

    Why indeed.

    ... yeah sure

    I'm dead serious

    The vast majority of this stuff seems like glitches-turned-techniques and enshrined program limitations and complexity for the sake of complexity rather than anything resembling deliberately balanced game design.

    It's amateur
    Its really not.

    Denial of your own creeps means that its worth fighting over every single creep kill, rather than sticking to getting yours. In the case of melee heroes it forces, the heroes closer togheter, which makes it less of a PvE farmfest by involving more PvP. It adds tactical choices ("Do I prioritize denying or lasthitting?" where the answer depends on the lane composition and what hero you're playing).

    For towers, it provides a reason to not fallback, a reward for the team who might know that they will lose the tower, they still have a reason to stick around. It also forces the attacking force to actually finish a tower off. Again, the result here is more action - its incredibly common to see towers fall into deny range, followed by defensive ports, forcing the attacker to either withdraw, or risk getting caught but increasing his teams gold from taking out the tower. Denying towers increases the strategic benefit from fighting for each and every tower, even though the tower might be a guaranteed writeoff.

    Fuck knows about the secret shops though, I play HoN not DotA 2 and the "secret shop" only offers a source of paid regen and wards these days.

    Eating trees adds strategy and tactics involving the terrain - HoN has a ganking hero that can treewalk, breaking trees as he wanders ahead. Played well, its basically like someone with invis except its more annoying.

    I don't why there aren't couriers in LoL, but they help add decision value to what items you leave the base with, as well as not brutally fuck over supports be requiring them to run all the way home to get consumables.

    Denial is achieved by area control and zoning

    actually having to shoot the damn things is just backwards

    eating trees reduces the controlled elements of the game, unbalancing it crazily by allowing players to play "make their own map" rather than having a carefully controlled environment

    in LoL you leave base with the items you can afford. going back once every 6+ minutes is not "brutally fucking over"
  • VanguardVanguard for the Night is Dark and Full of Big Areolas Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Free baseball tickets doot doot
    Vanguard on
    I'm giving away a free copy of The Burning Wheel rulebook for free RPG Day 2013! Click here for details.
  • ElldrenElldren Registered User regular
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Free baseball tickets doot doot

    I initially read as basketball and was briefly insanely jealous

    like momentary "how can I kill Vanguard and take his tickets?" jealous
  • ronyaronya hmmm over there!Registered User regular
    lol is basically 5.84c dota going in a different direction

    you know, back when we didn't have tangoes or quelling blades

    and trying to attack your own creeps would get you hexed
  • GonmunGonmun Canada eh!Registered User regular
    As a Montreal fan I find Toronto's implosion last night to be so...gratifying. Yessssss.
    t7zsk1.jpg
  • TavTav Registered User regular
    I played Geoguessr so much yesterday that the locations started repeating, now I've kinda lost interest.
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp! I can show you how to be a real man!Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    Elldren wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Free baseball tickets doot doot

    I initially read as basketball and was briefly insanely jealous

    like momentary "how can I kill Vanguard and take his tickets?" jealous

    you go to basketball all the time! :P
  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    Why is the potion called tango?

    Why does it require you to eat trees?

    Why is this so unintuitive?

    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phoney God's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp! I can show you how to be a real man!Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    also I need to get Royals tickets. 3RD IN THE AL WOOO
  • ElldrenElldren Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Free baseball tickets doot doot

    I initially read as basketball and was briefly insanely jealous

    like momentary "how can I kill Vanguard and take his tickets?" jealous

    you go to basketball all the time! :P

    exactly

    and basketball tickets right now = playoff tickets
  • AldoAldo Registered User regular
    Everyone should just play Smite instead, it does away with a lot of the bullshit, is played from a 3rd person perspective and is a lot easier to pick up and play without having to do any number-crunching at all.
    GW2 tag: Aldo.6019
    Free MMO Überlist
    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • ronyaronya hmmm over there!Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    lol said: alright, let's make this consistent. everyone gets a passive, a farming spell, etc. etc.

    hon said: alright, let's make this consistent. orbs either stack or don't. everything can be bought in the base, no more secret shop. etc. etc.

    but both stem very much from when dota became popular, i.e., in its 5.84c incarnation
    ronya on
  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo Tough on mime. Tough on the causes of mime Registered User regular
    Smite was okay.

    SMNC was the best dota though.
  • BobCescaBobCesca Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    BobCesca wrote: »
    @Bogart

    Saw the new Star Trek last night and really enjoyed it. Have you seen it yet?

    I have! I posted some gubbins about it in the film thread. Major spoilers:
    I loved lots of it and thought the bits where they redid scenes from Wrath of Khan were a major flub. I dunno how someone who hasn't seen the original would see those scenes, but for me they failed on about eighteen levels. The rest of it was pretty good, bar one or two stupid plot developments (I put my crew on torpedoes!).

    I'll have a look in the film thread.

    I didn't really have too many issues with it. May have been perving on Benedict Cumberbatch too much to notice the bad, I guess.
  • ElldrenElldren Registered User regular
    Aldo wrote: »
    Everyone should just play Smite instead, it does away with a lot of the bullshit, is played from a 3rd person perspective and is a lot easier to pick up and play without having to do any number-crunching at all.

    yeah but it's played from the third person perspective and has an unintuitive item system
  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    How many idiots will claim Boston won because the NHL wanted them to for publicity I wonder.
    _J_ wrote:
    If we only allowed pedophiles to be parents, then we would never have to worry about children being left alone, unwatched.
    XBL: Fanatical One AIM: itskagera
  • GonmunGonmun Canada eh!Registered User regular
    BobCesca wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    BobCesca wrote: »
    @Bogart

    Saw the new Star Trek last night and really enjoyed it. Have you seen it yet?

    I have! I posted some gubbins about it in the film thread. Major spoilers:
    I loved lots of it and thought the bits where they redid scenes from Wrath of Khan were a major flub. I dunno how someone who hasn't seen the original would see those scenes, but for me they failed on about eighteen levels. The rest of it was pretty good, bar one or two stupid plot developments (I put my crew on torpedoes!).

    I'll have a look in the film thread.

    I didn't really have too many issues with it. May have been perving on Benedict Cumberbatch too much to notice the bad, I guess.

    Did he warm your cold, lizard blood Bob? Are you starting to reconsider your takeover of our planet? :P
    t7zsk1.jpg
  • ElldrenElldren Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    another thing that bothers me is just how murky HoN and DotA2 are, visually
    Elldren on
  • GonmunGonmun Canada eh!Registered User regular
    Kagera wrote: »
    How many idiots will claim Boston won because the NHL wanted them to for publicity I wonder.

    Are we talking just Toronto fans or idiots in general? :P
    t7zsk1.jpg
  • AldoAldo Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    Everyone should just play Smite instead, it does away with a lot of the bullshit, is played from a 3rd person perspective and is a lot easier to pick up and play without having to do any number-crunching at all.

    yeah but it's played from the third person perspective and has an unintuitive item system
    I just automate the item system, can't be bothered with it and I'm playing casual anyway.

    3rd person is rad, it feels natural and it's easy to keep track of stuff.
    GW2 tag: Aldo.6019
    Free MMO Überlist
    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • BobCescaBobCesca Registered User regular
    Gonmun wrote: »
    BobCesca wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    BobCesca wrote: »
    @Bogart

    Saw the new Star Trek last night and really enjoyed it. Have you seen it yet?

    I have! I posted some gubbins about it in the film thread. Major spoilers:
    I loved lots of it and thought the bits where they redid scenes from Wrath of Khan were a major flub. I dunno how someone who hasn't seen the original would see those scenes, but for me they failed on about eighteen levels. The rest of it was pretty good, bar one or two stupid plot developments (I put my crew on torpedoes!).

    I'll have a look in the film thread.

    I didn't really have too many issues with it. May have been perving on Benedict Cumberbatch too much to notice the bad, I guess.

    Did he warm your cold, lizard blood Bob? Are you starting to reconsider your takeover of our planet? :P

    I shall take him as my concubine :winky:
  • ElldrenElldren Registered User regular
    Aldo wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Aldo wrote: »
    Everyone should just play Smite instead, it does away with a lot of the bullshit, is played from a 3rd person perspective and is a lot easier to pick up and play without having to do any number-crunching at all.

    yeah but it's played from the third person perspective and has an unintuitive item system
    I just automate the item system, can't be bothered with it and I'm playing casual anyway.

    3rd person is rad, it feels natural and it's easy to keep track of stuff.

    I feel the opposite way about third person

    I'm much much more comfortable with top-down
  • ronyaronya hmmm over there!Registered User regular
    Why is the potion called tango?

    Why does it require you to eat trees?

    Why is this so unintuitive?

    i suspect it's an elaborate in-joke wordplay on "ancient janggo of endurance" from vanilla warcraft 3, since it was originally called "ancient tango of essifation".

    ... the janggo itself later came to dota1, of course. then for copyright reasons bits of the fluff were changed for dota2. so ancient tango just became 'tango'.

    as to why an ancient janggo existed at all, it's an item named in a typically DnD fashion, i.e., X item of Y effect. Ring of Regeneration. Gloves of Dexterity.
  • y2jake215y2jake215 oh ok yeah that's cool RAP GAME KiNG TUTRegistered User regular
    Kagera wrote: »
    How many idiots will claim Boston won because the NHL wanted them to for publicity I wonder.

    BKMkJSuCYAAbFIt.jpg:large

    It wasnt the NHL, it was just karma
    G2Dcf.jpg
  • ronyaronya hmmm over there!Registered User regular
    as for "why does it require you to eat a tree", it's probably because it doesn't cancel if you are attacked, and there needs to be some way to prevent players from just popping it whenever they are surprised for the increased regen, and making it obvious to players trying to harass you that you have popped it.
  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Elldren wrote: »
    another thing that bothers me is just how murky HoN and DotA2 are, visually
    LoL Is amazing for just how much easier it is to discern enemies and allies and what the hell is going on.

    Watching a HoN stream I actaully couldn't tell if an approaching char was allied or not, until a friend pointed out the tiny red outline.

    Also DotA somehow has worse names for its champs than LoL. Both more bland and more dumb. This is no mean feat.
    Antinumeric on
    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phoney God's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
  • ronyaronya hmmm over there!Registered User regular
    how geoguessr so frequently puts you on a highway in the middle of absolutely nowhere is amazing
  • HenroidHenroid Baba Booey to y'all Tyler, TX (where hope comes to die!)Registered User regular
    @syndalis ZZ Toooooooooooooooooop!
    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit." - @Ludious
    Unmotivate - Updated May 17th - "Let's Complain About Nintendo"
    The PA Forumer 'Lets Play' Archive - Updated March 25th, 2013
  • AldoAldo Registered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    how geoguessr so frequently puts you on a highway in the middle of absolutely nowhere is amazing

    There's a limited number of locations and I *think* the creator wanted to add some real "OMG WHERE AM I?" moments in there.
    GW2 tag: Aldo.6019
    Free MMO Überlist
    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • ElldrenElldren Registered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    as for "why does it require you to eat a tree", it's probably because it doesn't cancel if you are attacked, and there needs to be some way to prevent players from just popping it whenever they are surprised for the increased regen, and making it obvious to players trying to harass you that you have popped it.

    particle effect on the player who popped it

    limited consumable item so popping it whenever, and not when you need it, is a waste

    oh wait I just described a LoL potion
  • evilbobevilbob Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    BobCesca wrote: »
    @Bogart

    Saw the new Star Trek last night and really enjoyed it. Have you seen it yet?

    I have! I posted some gubbins about it in the film thread. Major spoilers:
    I loved lots of it and thought the bits where they redid scenes from Wrath of Khan were a major flub. I dunno how someone who hasn't seen the original would see those scenes, but for me they failed on about eighteen levels. The rest of it was pretty good, bar one or two stupid plot developments (I put my crew on torpedoes!).
    I actually thought it could have done with one more, although from VI rather than II.
  • CalixtusCalixtus Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    Calixtus wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Calixtus wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    srsly though wtf is up with dota 2 none of this makes any sense
    The description I was given of DoTA made it seem like something you play if you hate yourself.

    DoTA2 might be carrying on that tradition.

    I play League of Legends quite regularly

    most of the mechanics I'm reading about seem like baroque nonsense (ie denial being actually shooting your own towers/creeps/friendly players, secret shops, eating trees, couriers, etc)
    "I don't understand why there has to be so many different pieces in chess?"

    Why indeed.

    ... yeah sure

    I'm dead serious

    The vast majority of this stuff seems like glitches-turned-techniques and enshrined program limitations and complexity for the sake of complexity rather than anything resembling deliberately balanced game design.

    It's amateur
    Its really not.

    Denial of your own creeps means that its worth fighting over every single creep kill, rather than sticking to getting yours. In the case of melee heroes it forces, the heroes closer togheter, which makes it less of a PvE farmfest by involving more PvP. It adds tactical choices ("Do I prioritize denying or lasthitting?" where the answer depends on the lane composition and what hero you're playing).

    For towers, it provides a reason to not fallback, a reward for the team who might know that they will lose the tower, they still have a reason to stick around. It also forces the attacking force to actually finish a tower off. Again, the result here is more action - its incredibly common to see towers fall into deny range, followed by defensive ports, forcing the attacker to either withdraw, or risk getting caught but increasing his teams gold from taking out the tower. Denying towers increases the strategic benefit from fighting for each and every tower, even though the tower might be a guaranteed writeoff.

    Fuck knows about the secret shops though, I play HoN not DotA 2 and the "secret shop" only offers a source of paid regen and wards these days.

    Eating trees adds strategy and tactics involving the terrain - HoN has a ganking hero that can treewalk, breaking trees as he wanders ahead. Played well, its basically like someone with invis except its more annoying.

    I don't why there aren't couriers in LoL, but they help add decision value to what items you leave the base with, as well as not brutally fuck over supports be requiring them to run all the way home to get consumables.

    Denial is achieved by area control and zoning

    actually having to shoot the damn things is just backwards

    eating trees reduces the controlled elements of the game, unbalancing it crazily by allowing players to play "make their own map" rather than having a carefully controlled environment

    in LoL you leave base with the items you can afford. going back once every 6+ minutes is not "brutally fucking over"
    Forcing someone completely off the creeps, while certainly more beneficial, doesn't tend to produce the most action-filled of games. (There might be a creep AI thing there as well, forcing someone of the creeps in HoN - and I presume DotA2 - is difficult because the other guys creeps will go for you if you try. How does that work in LoL?). The point is to force players of both teams closer togheter, by providing a larger number of things to contest - and the point of that is to generate good, PvP, gameplay.

    The environment is carefully controlled (the undestructible cliffs being the biggest case in point), it just features changeable elements - requiring a larger degree of map awareness, and providing more strategic gameplay options. There is a whole host of carefully crafted jukespots, where tearing down a single tree will give you access to another path. And there are plenty of impassable canyons holding your intrepid forest-trekkers back.

    Forcing running back to the base is, again, action reducing, replacing dynamic gameplay with rote movements.


    And DotA2 graphics are shit, which is weird, given that its more recent than any of the others.
    -This message was deviously brought to you by:
  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    as for "why does it require you to eat a tree", it's probably because it doesn't cancel if you are attacked, and there needs to be some way to prevent players from just popping it whenever they are surprised for the increased regen, and making it obvious to players trying to harass you that you have popped it.

    particle effect on the player who popped it

    limited consumable item so popping it whenever, and not when you need it, is a waste

    oh wait I just described a LoL potion
    Brand new player to the game.

    How do I get an item that heals me?

    LoL: red potion (same colour as health bar, potion is a common convention in games)

    DotA: Tango. Like the drink? I guess. Eating trees or something. Iono.
    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phoney God's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
  • CasualCasual IT'S CRIME TIME MOTHAFUCKAS WE OUTRegistered User regular
    BobCesca wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    BobCesca wrote: »
    @Bogart

    Saw the new Star Trek last night and really enjoyed it. Have you seen it yet?

    I have! I posted some gubbins about it in the film thread. Major spoilers:
    I loved lots of it and thought the bits where they redid scenes from Wrath of Khan were a major flub. I dunno how someone who hasn't seen the original would see those scenes, but for me they failed on about eighteen levels. The rest of it was pretty good, bar one or two stupid plot developments (I put my crew on torpedoes!).

    I'll have a look in the film thread.

    I didn't really have too many issues with it. May have been perving on Benedict Cumberbatch too much to notice the bad, I guess.

    ain't nuffink wrong with that
    R.I.P Sir Check
    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    ??/02/2009 - 19/04/2013
    He lives on as cheezburger grease in our hearts.
  • HonkHonk Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Elldren wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    as for "why does it require you to eat a tree", it's probably because it doesn't cancel if you are attacked, and there needs to be some way to prevent players from just popping it whenever they are surprised for the increased regen, and making it obvious to players trying to harass you that you have popped it.

    particle effect on the player who popped it

    limited consumable item so popping it whenever, and not when you need it, is a waste

    oh wait I just described a LoL potion

    In good MOBA's, like HoN for instance where there are individual trees and not huge clusters, it can also be used to create a path for a gank or escape - by removing a tree and permitting passage.

    *This post features the assumption that the statement above does not work in LoL.
    Honk on
This discussion has been closed.