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I understand that too, but I mean practically the amount of steady gold gain does not get affected for players outside of the lane.
It is a function that is in the game and is a central part to affect how well you are doing in your lane. It is practically meaningless after the laning phase going into mid game.
I understand that it may not seem at all logical if your main experience is LoL but it is a balanced and extremely central part of playing HoN. I do not know how it functions in Dota2 practically.
I don't know what to say other than it is one out of several aspect HoN is balanced with regards to. It does not create more snowballing in HoN - that is just a false statement.
they still fit
then again I don't think I've gained much weight since then, so that shouldn't be a surprise
the "don't autoattack creeps to push the lane thing" is still a thing in the LoL meta. LoL lane equilibrium evens out pretty elegantly with the towers pushing creeps back and big waves forming under towers when left alone. Lanes eventually push themselves, slowly, and if you're going to extract gold from them you will always shift the balance towards your lane pushing. If the enemy is doing the same you arrive at equilibrium and all the creeps die and everyone gets money
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MOBAs are basically scratching out any advantage you can and nursing them as much as possible to make them as large as possible until you win.
I think they are a pretty deeply flawed game design, and are really only suited for games of very short duration.
conversely the tower is pretty weaksauce
LoL is still somewhat like this.
Not really, snowballing to me is when one team is just so powerful that the other team simply cannot win any engagements.
Denying is really important but only in the early game as you can jump more powerfully into mid game. But given the disparity of all heroes available this effectively means nothing outside of the first quarter. Something that can be tactically used to give you an advantage is not the same as causing snowballing.
The main function is to close down early farm for carry's.
dota favours an unstable flow of the game - an early gold advantage can explode or be abruptly reversed based on a single bad fight
lol is more incremental. more poking, etc.
lol has like... roles, though. pre-defined, to be sure.
that's a bad definition of snowballing that doesn't even make sense
that's not what a snowball does!
Getting blown out in a game is fine, if it is fast enough.
Generally also if it takes more than one round to win or lose a match of that game and there is no carryover between rounds.
Getting blown out via death by a thousand papercuts over an hour, which is very common in MOBAs, is basically unacceptable design to me.
Sorry I left out the unspoken but completely obvious part where the snowball grows larger because they keep winning engagements. Better?
having hard carries combined with heroes who can resist pushes easily will do that
the creeps in LoL do very little damage (except the cannon creep, which does not much damage)
The tower kills melee creeps in just over two shots, ranged creeps in just under two, and the cannon in I think 5 or 6, and fires about once a second.
Again there are three lanes.
If I come out of my lane after winning it strongly I have a personal advantage going into midgame. If the enemy lost all of their lanes then yes the mid game looks bad for them.
I really think you are using the term different than the rest of them.
I don't think snowballing is an inherently negative term, I think it's just a quality of gameplay. Good early lane denying should result in an advantage and if you think that's true, that's going to cause the game to snowball to a certain extent. Snowballing isn't steamrolling, it just means early good play has a reward in effectiveness. When it too quickly becomes insurmountable is probably a negative.
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Doing well in the early game means you do better in the mid game means you do better in the late game. This is snowballing. It occurs in all MOBAs, but with denying your own creeps it is magnified even further.
The way you are talking doing well in the early game has no effect on the mid game.
I know there are three lanes. That doesn't change my point at all.
You can win a lane more strongly with denying than you can without it.
That's it.
note that spells are so expensive in dota that you can't generally use them as pokes
I've played several LoL games like this. Usually with my team since pubs will have given up by then.
but a strong teamfighting composition which can resist pushes and eventually reach parity despite early losses with a hard carry and good peeling can turn that around late
I mean, generally for a game to work one event has to feed into the next and advantages can accrue over these series of linked events. Otherwise the game would just be like, a series of unrelated coin flips.
How much a game should snowball is a matter of taste. LoL already snowballs too much as it is in my opinion, it doesn't need another mechanic that adds to it.
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oh yeah
I meant that there is always more farm than can be reasonably extracted on the map, even at the pro level.
If the definition of snowballing is simply that playing good provides you with an advantage. Then yes of course. Playing good should of course give you an advantage for the next stage of the game.
The only other alternative is a game where both teams do exactly as well for 40 minutes until suddenly one of them win for no discernible reason.
lol is incremental, or so I'm told. a small gold advantage leads to a small advantage. you build up on that to win.
dota is unstable by design - a small gold advantage leads to a large advantage, but that applies in converse too; the large advantage can be abruptly wiped out.
Carrys will focus more on last hits in order to become relevant quicker. Therefore when facing a carry it is good if you try to focus more on denying.
A game does not require giving you a mechanical advantage for doing well.
See for example: fighting games. It is not like every time I hit my opponent that my punches do more damage in addition to making them lose life.
In HoN the advantage for winning lane (denying creeps, getting more farm) is greater than that of LoL. That is the issue people have with denying.
Also killing your own men? That's just dumb.
This is understood. You try to deny their carry while hoping that you carry farms so that your carry snowballs relative to theirs.
Like, you are saying things that agree with me but acting like they do not for some reason.
FIghting games also lack a leveling up and build system where you throughout the course of the game need to control two currencies - xp and gold - in order to gain skills and stats.
It is a numbers game with mechanical skill as the input layer.
It is important in MOBAs.
Bloodline Champions has no in game leveling up or gold acquiring. It is a MOBA and it works just fine.