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[chat] going one way, people another

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Posts

  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    Nope, I still haven't figured out what the h is for.

    Higher than. it stands for higher than.

    there were three numbers that geth rolled that were higher (or equal to) than 3
    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phoney God's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
  • ronyaronya hmmm over there!Registered User regular
    Geth, roll 1d6
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Nope, I still haven't figured out what the h is for.

    Higher than. it stands for higher than.

    there were three numbers that geth rolled that were higher (or equal to) than 3

    Oh, I thought it was like "Keep the highest three rolls", like for stat generation.
  • LudiousLudious Registered User regular
    antinumeric, you have the worst sig ever
    Google Talk: ludious83 My Blog: The Caustic Geek
  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Geth, roll 5d6!

    sadly it doesn't explode dice.
    Antinumeric on
    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phoney God's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
  • HonkHonk Registered User regular
    Honk wrote: »
    Okay the working assumption I had of snowballing was that thing when a team gets so much more powerful they are very unlikely to lose a teamfight going into early game. Then they keep winning fights and getting more powerful, repeat. Because the first usage of the word snowballing had a negative connotation.

    If the definition of snowballing is simply that playing good provides you with an advantage. Then yes of course. Playing good should of course give you an advantage for the next stage of the game.

    The only other alternative is a game where both teams do exactly as well for 40 minutes until suddenly one of them win for no discernible reason.
    The argument is over the degree of the advantage.

    In HoN the advantage for winning lane (denying creeps, getting more farm) is greater than that of LoL. That is the issue people have with denying.


    Also killing your own men? That's just dumb.

    Yeah killing your own men is pretty dumb at face value I agree, and the lack of obvious logic to it also makes it more difficult for new players to understand.

    It doesn't mean more advantage in the way you assume. You say zoning is a thing in LoL instead. That also means that their carry loses opportunity to get last hits. The gold earned/lost aspect is the same although the mechanic is different. What may be different is that a denied creeps gives of 0 xp in the experience aura, but in LoL if you zone someone out of xp range doesn't that mean the same thing?
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    You can zone people out of XP and gold in HoN too, on top of denying.
    AoTsig_zps8cfd65c2.png
  • evilbobevilbob Registered User regular
    Geth roll 1d1h1
  • evilbobevilbob Registered User regular
    Heheheheheehehehehehe
  • HonkHonk Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    What you should also comprehend is that the most common situation is where both sides of a lane get close to an equal amount of denies and last hits. Since those are the two prime mechanics you are focusing on.

    Carrys will focus more on last hits in order to become relevant quicker. Therefore when facing a carry it is good if you try to focus more on denying.

    This is understood. You try to deny their carry while hoping that you carry farms so that your carry snowballs relative to theirs.

    Like, you are saying things that agree with me but acting like they do not for some reason.

    Because I assumed you used snowballing to mean an unturnable advantage. Because that is the logical definition of the word. Which I understand now that you did not in fact mean.

    Anyway just to mark words again. Me denying their carry does not mean that ours snowballs in contrast - because our carry is on the opposite lane, at least in HoN. It is dependent on us winning both lanes. Denying is just a delay mechanic.
  • ronyaronya hmmm over there!Registered User regular
    zoning in dota only really happens in terrible matchups, the map is fluid enough that it's hard to keep it up. and 175 gold allows you to switch to another lane in a hurry.
  • ronyaronya hmmm over there!Registered User regular
    ??

    Geth roll 1d1
  • ronyaronya hmmm over there!Registered User regular
    Geth roll 1d1h
  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    Ludious wrote: »
    antinumeric, you have the worst sig ever
    <3

    Honk wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    Okay the working assumption I had of snowballing was that thing when a team gets so much more powerful they are very unlikely to lose a teamfight going into early game. Then they keep winning fights and getting more powerful, repeat. Because the first usage of the word snowballing had a negative connotation.

    If the definition of snowballing is simply that playing good provides you with an advantage. Then yes of course. Playing good should of course give you an advantage for the next stage of the game.

    The only other alternative is a game where both teams do exactly as well for 40 minutes until suddenly one of them win for no discernible reason.
    The argument is over the degree of the advantage.

    In HoN the advantage for winning lane (denying creeps, getting more farm) is greater than that of LoL. That is the issue people have with denying.


    Also killing your own men? That's just dumb.

    Yeah killing your own men is pretty dumb at face value I agree, and the lack of obvious logic to it also makes it more difficult for new players to understand.

    It doesn't mean more advantage in the way you assume. You say zoning is a thing in LoL instead. That also means that their carry loses opportunity to get last hits. The gold earned/lost aspect is the same although the mechanic is different. What may be different is that a denied creeps gives of 0 xp in the experience aura, but in LoL if you zone someone out of xp range doesn't that mean the same thing?
    Zoning is really difficult to completly do. If you have zoned someone out of exp range you are really far forward and going to get ganked by the jungler while being further from the tower. It carries some risk.
    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phoney God's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
  • HonkHonk Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    Okay the working assumption I had of snowballing was that thing when a team gets so much more powerful they are very unlikely to lose a teamfight going into early game. Then they keep winning fights and getting more powerful, repeat. Because the first usage of the word snowballing had a negative connotation.

    If the definition of snowballing is simply that playing good provides you with an advantage. Then yes of course. Playing good should of course give you an advantage for the next stage of the game.

    The only other alternative is a game where both teams do exactly as well for 40 minutes until suddenly one of them win for no discernible reason.

    A game does not require giving you a mechanical advantage for doing well.

    See for example: fighting games. It is not like every time I hit my opponent that my punches do more damage in addition to making them lose life.

    FIghting games also lack a leveling up and build system where you throughout the course of the game need to control two currencies - xp and gold - in order to gain skills and stats.

    It is a numbers game with mechanical skill as the input layer.

    It is important in MOBAs.

    Bloodline Champions has no in game leveling up or gold acquiring. It is a MOBA and it works just fine.

    Sorry, I only have experience with Dota style MOBAs. Never read up on Bloodline Champions or MNC for instance though I do recognize the title.
  • CalixtusCalixtus Registered User regular
    Honk wrote: »
    Okay the working assumption I had of snowballing was that thing when a team gets so much more powerful they are very unlikely to lose a teamfight going into early game. Then they keep winning fights and getting more powerful, repeat. Because the first usage of the word snowballing had a negative connotation.

    If the definition of snowballing is simply that playing good provides you with an advantage. Then yes of course. Playing good should of course give you an advantage for the next stage of the game.

    The only other alternative is a game where both teams do exactly as well for 40 minutes until suddenly one of them win for no discernible reason.
    The argument is over the degree of the advantage.

    In HoN the advantage for winning lane (denying creeps, getting more farm) is greater than that of LoL. That is the issue people have with denying.


    Also killing your own men? That's just dumb.
    Except its not: If I'm getting every single lasthit and every single deny, its because I can force the enemy off the creeps. Otherwise, they'll be getting their own denies/lasthits in.

    The scenario where I have such great control over the lane that I can get every single lasthit/deny, but not force the enemy of the creeps? That doesn't really exist, except when the team conceding the lane does it on purpose (a teleporting hero hiding in the woods). In which case, as a strategy, it is intentionally punished because once again - its not good gameplay to sit out of LoS hoarding exp for 10 minutes.

    The point of the system is to create more sources of conflict, to force teams to engage early and often. And as you said, increase the skill requirements.
    -This message was deviously brought to you by:
  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong and a cast of thousands Registered User regular
    Ludious wrote: »
    antinumeric, you have the worst sig ever

    It's that misplaced comma, isn't it.
    dkmouthsig.png
  • evilbobevilbob Registered User regular
    I was hoping the 100 roll limit wouldn't still be in place but that's pretty funny anyway.
  • TTODewbackTTODewback Pink haired tyrant On my throne of forum faces.Registered User regular
    Good morning [Chat]
    This death star is fully operational.
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Honk wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    What you should also comprehend is that the most common situation is where both sides of a lane get close to an equal amount of denies and last hits. Since those are the two prime mechanics you are focusing on.

    Carrys will focus more on last hits in order to become relevant quicker. Therefore when facing a carry it is good if you try to focus more on denying.

    This is understood. You try to deny their carry while hoping that you carry farms so that your carry snowballs relative to theirs.

    Like, you are saying things that agree with me but acting like they do not for some reason.

    Because I assumed you used snowballing to mean an unturnable advantage. Because that is the logical definition of the word. Which I understand now that you did not in fact mean.

    Anyway just to mark words again. Me denying their carry does not mean that ours snowballs in contrast - because our carry is on the opposite lane, at least in HoN. It is dependent on us winning both lanes. Denying is just a delay mechanic.

    Because that is the logical definition of the word? Come on man let's not get petty here. A ball of snow rolling along and slowly getting progressively bigger. That's plenty logical.

    Let's give an extreme example.

    Your carry was denied zero last hits, got all his last hits, and got 5k gold and exp from the laning phase (I am making up numbers).

    Their carry got denied every last hit, got no last hits, and got 0k gold and exp from the laning phase

    Your carry is up 5k gold and exp as compared to theirs, your carry is snowballing relative to theirs, and thus your team is.
    AoTsig_zps8cfd65c2.png
  • evilbobevilbob Registered User regular
    TTODewback wrote: »
    Good morning [Chat]
    This death star is fully operational.
    That's a terrible nickname for your penis.
  • LudiousLudious Registered User regular
    Ludious wrote: »
    antinumeric, you have the worst sig ever

    It's that misplaced comma, isn't it.

    I can overlook the comma. It's because he doesn't cite his source. Give credit where credit is due. Add

    --
    Madalyn Murray O'Hair
    Google Talk: ludious83 My Blog: The Caustic Geek
  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    evilbob wrote: »
    Geth roll 1d1h1

    guess it explodes like that. Not used to that syntax.
    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phoney God's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
  • CasualCasual IT'S CRIME TIME MOTHAFUCKAS WE OUTRegistered User regular
    mein gott

    are you lot still talking about MOBA's?
    R.I.P Sir Check
    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    ??/02/2009 - 19/04/2013
    He lives on as cheezburger grease in our hearts.
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    mein gott

    are you lot still talking about MOBA's?

    To be honest I am not sure why I have belabored this point as long as I have. I really should be getting off to bed.
    AoTsig_zps8cfd65c2.png
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    evilbob wrote: »
    TTODewback wrote: »
    Good morning [Chat]
    This death star is fully operational.
    That's a terrible nickname for your penis.

    I dunno, there's a sort of appeal when they scream out in terror and are suddenly silenced...
  • LudiousLudious Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    mein gott

    are you lot still talking about MOBA's?

    they're talking about denying, zoning, lanes, and creeps, so it's either MOBA or Pick Up Artistry
    Google Talk: ludious83 My Blog: The Caustic Geek
  • BobCescaBobCesca Registered User regular
    Yes! I am as smart as the 11 year olds having to take that stupid spelling and grammar test today. Got 10 out of 10 on the BBC News Magazine test thingy they're doing.

    (totally not procrastinating at all...)
  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    Ludious wrote: »
    Ludious wrote: »
    antinumeric, you have the worst sig ever

    It's that misplaced comma, isn't it.

    I can overlook the comma. It's because he doesn't cite his source. Give credit where credit is due. Add

    --
    Madalyn Murray O'Hair
    I didn't want to shame them further.

    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phoney God's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    Ludious wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    mein gott

    are you lot still talking about MOBA's?

    they're talking about denying, zoning, lanes, and creeps, so it's either MOBA or Pick Up Artistry
    Please.
    There are no creeps in PUA.

    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phoney God's blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
  • TTODewbackTTODewback Pink haired tyrant On my throne of forum faces.Registered User regular
    RMS, you are wonderful if not terrifying.
  • LudiousLudious Registered User regular
    I am not a fan of the Agents of Shield promo. On one hand, I am excited about the show, on the other hand, not even acknowledging what happened in the Avengers totally ruins the drama
    Google Talk: ludious83 My Blog: The Caustic Geek
  • evilbobevilbob Registered User regular
    evilbob wrote: »
    Geth roll 1d1h1

    guess it explodes like that. Not used to that syntax.

    It's telling it to count all the rolls >= the number after the h, and reroll all the maximum rolls. Because it's rolling a d1 all rolls are maximum and have to be rerolled. I was hoping to break it entirely but it still maxes out at 100 rolls.
  • CasualCasual IT'S CRIME TIME MOTHAFUCKAS WE OUTRegistered User regular
    evilbob wrote: »
    TTODewback wrote: »
    Good morning [Chat]
    This death star is fully operational.
    That's a terrible nickname for your penis.

    I dunno, there's a sort of appeal when they scream out in terror and are suddenly silenced...

    that's a lot darker than i've come to expect from you RMS D:
    R.I.P Sir Check
    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    ??/02/2009 - 19/04/2013
    He lives on as cheezburger grease in our hearts.
  • CasualCasual IT'S CRIME TIME MOTHAFUCKAS WE OUTRegistered User regular
    Ludious wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    mein gott

    are you lot still talking about MOBA's?

    they're talking about denying, zoning, lanes, and creeps, so it's either MOBA or Pick Up Artistry

    either way it's goddamn gibberish to me
    R.I.P Sir Check
    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    ??/02/2009 - 19/04/2013
    He lives on as cheezburger grease in our hearts.
  • LudiousLudious Registered User regular
    TTODewback wrote: »
    RMS, you are wonderful if not terrifying.

    “Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
    Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
    Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
    Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
    Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
    Elves are terrific. They beget terror.
    The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.
    No one ever said elves are nice.
    Elves are bad.”
    --Terry Pratchett


    Find "Elves" Replace with "RMS"
    Google Talk: ludious83 My Blog: The Caustic Geek
  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Geth, roll 10d10t8

    E: Oh man, the little pop-up is excellent.
    Delmain on
    Torak - Elcor Vanguard
  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    Geth, roll 10dF
    Torak - Elcor Vanguard
  • HonkHonk Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    What you should also comprehend is that the most common situation is where both sides of a lane get close to an equal amount of denies and last hits. Since those are the two prime mechanics you are focusing on.

    Carrys will focus more on last hits in order to become relevant quicker. Therefore when facing a carry it is good if you try to focus more on denying.

    This is understood. You try to deny their carry while hoping that you carry farms so that your carry snowballs relative to theirs.

    Like, you are saying things that agree with me but acting like they do not for some reason.

    Because I assumed you used snowballing to mean an unturnable advantage. Because that is the logical definition of the word. Which I understand now that you did not in fact mean.

    Anyway just to mark words again. Me denying their carry does not mean that ours snowballs in contrast - because our carry is on the opposite lane, at least in HoN. It is dependent on us winning both lanes. Denying is just a delay mechanic.

    Because that is the logical definition of the word? Come on man let's not get petty here. A ball of snow rolling along and slowly getting progressively bigger. That's plenty logical.

    Let's give an extreme example.

    Your carry was denied zero last hits, got all his last hits, and got 5k gold and exp from the laning phase (I am making up numbers).

    Their carry got denied every last hit, got no last hits, and got 0k gold and exp from the laning phase

    Your carry is up 5k gold and exp as compared to theirs, your carry is snowballing relative to theirs, and thus your team is.

    I'm not trying to get petty. My vision of a snowballing is a ball rolling down a hill at great speed getting huge as shit. That is what it means to me and the only way I've previously seen people refer to it. Honestly.

    And I'm sure you realize the situation describes basically never happens. It is dependent on how both lanes go etc etc. There are starting items mitigations etc.

    True facts:
    Balanced mechanic
    Like or dislike
    Provides advantage to better players
    Contributes to skill gap

    All of those either negative or positive depending on personal preference in games.
  • evilbobevilbob Registered User regular
    Geth roll 100d1h1
This discussion has been closed.