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A Thread of A Series of Books of A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK AND TV SPOILERS HERE)

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  • KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Sicarii wrote: »
    The genetics of hair and eye phenotypes is not very well understood.

    Not only are there more than one set of genes that determine those pigments, there are probably more than 2 competing alleles for said genes. Lot's of combinations.

    I personally have brown hair brown eyes. My father is brown hair/blue eyes, my mother is blonde with brown eyes. I have the recessive genes. The kicker is, my mother's family has Irish blood in them, with my great grandfather having bright red hair. My brown hair got red highlights in the summer for much of my youth, so somewhere in that yellow hair gene there is some red.

    Point is it's not just straight one gene fifty/fifty.

    Kruite on
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    Yeah I figured out my schooldays biology lessons were oversimplifying things when I saw lots of half-Japanese kids. Sometimes black hair, brown eyes, sometimes whatever from the non-Japanese parent.

    If 'brown eyes are the dominant gene' as I was told in school, that would never happen unless lots of Japanese people were recessive carriers of the blue-eye gene, and if that was so, there would be lots of blue-eyed Japanese kids.

    But that 25%/50%/25% thing was just so elegant that it took me a couple of years to let it go, without having had a decent science education.
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  • shrykeshryke Registered User regular
    Targaryen platinum blonde almost has to be recessive, given that the Targs do so much incest to keept their madness/greatness genes active. I always kinda thought that the Blackfyres were called that because their hair got darker as they interbred with the locals.

    The Blackfyres are named after the Targaryn Valyrian Steel sword that was given to the first Blackfyre bastard.
  • LordSolarMachariusLordSolarMacharius Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    It's worth noting that if Aegon is indeed Rhaegar's progeny than Targaryen-blonde is dominant over black hair

    Which kinda screws up that whole R+L=J thing, but for some reason no one ever mentions that.

    I just finished up reading The Hedge Knight, The Sworn Sword, and The Mystery Knight so... [minor spoilers in regards to Targaryen/Martell genetics]
    Daeron the Good (who married a Dornish princess to bring them into the realm) had four sons. Baelor Breakspear had dark hair, while Aerys I, Rhaegel I, and Maekar I all had platinum.

    Baelor's one son (Valarr) was brunette with a platinum streak.

    Three of Maekar's sons (Aerion, Aemon, and Aegon) were platinum while one (Daeron) had sandy brown hair.

    Additionally (saw this when I checking spelling on the wiki) apparently GRRM has stated that Rhaegar's daughter Rhaenys looked Dornish while Aegon looked traditionally Targaryen.

    Edit: I'll add that the Dunk and Egg stories are pretty fun if you haven't gotten a chance to read them yet. But be prepared for a lot of heraldry descriptions, and a lot of jousting in probably too much detail.
    LordSolarMacharius on
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  • YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    I don't think we have the means to second-guess how heredity works in Westeros. The only thing that's really canon is that Baratheon-Lannister children have black hair.
  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    Wouldn't it make more sense for him to be Dr. Claw?
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  • PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    DAKBARBER wrote: »
    Only kidding. I liked 4 and 5. But that Martell prince in book 5. Didn't get it. Was he there just so Barristan could give the speech about mud? Otherwise he's the only character in the whole saga I find completely pointless.

    His entire purpose I feel was:
    1. Further sour Dany's expectation of Westerosi people (just my perspective, he kinda did that whole-heartedly)
    2. Let the dragons out
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Bobble wrote: »
    I felt his purpose was to remind you that dreams of heroism don't always end up with you riding a princess and marrying a dragon. Sometimes plans go awry and you fucking die like a midnight snack.

    "Oh," he said.

  • DAKBARBERDAKBARBER Registered User regular
    Bobble wrote: »
    I felt his purpose was to remind you that dreams of heroism don't always end up with you riding a dragon and marrying a princess. Sometimes plans go awry and you fucking die like a midnight snack.

    "Oh," he said.

    Put like that it makes sense. Yes, I am dumb. He works as a male counterpart to Sansa. Naive romanticism being brutally thwarted by reality. Yet one more fantasy trope subverted. Yet one more reason why Martin is a millionaire author and I'm not.
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    DAKBARBER wrote: »
    Is anyone else annoyed by the people in the TV thread whining about the Theon scenes?

    Though a little heavy handed I can respect the people who don't want the story spoiled. But too many people are complaining that the scenes add nothing and they don't get it and they don't understand what is going on. They don't want to know what happens next, but they want an explanation for why everything is happening right now. Well, the solution is simple. Read the books.

    And if people in the show thread are complaining about time wasted on less interesting sub-plots and characters... just wait until they get to books 4 and 5!

    Only kidding. I liked 4 and 5. But that Martell prince in book 5. Didn't get it. Was he there just so Barristan could give the speech about mud? Otherwise he's the only character in the whole saga I find completely pointless.

    I'm 99% convinced that it's just people bitching about the scenes simply because they are uncomfortable with what is being depicted, possibly in part due to demanding punishment for Theon's actions and now being confronted with what they've essentially been clamoring for. And it's not satisfying to watch, it's uncomfortable. Because of said discomfort, they want the scenes to be over with, and don't even bother thinking about what is going on and simply want the paydirt from all the plot development happening without having to sit through that part of the plot. In part due to distaste, in part due to feelings of guilt(I'm speculating like hell here, btw).

    And yes, it's irritating as fuck. Hasn't the production crew and the plot so far shown that the series is not filled with spurious bullshit, and almost everything carries the plot forward in some way? People should have a little faith instead of trusting their 10 second analysis of what is happening and considering the result as gospel. Maybe there is a point to these scenes, and they have just missed it. Maybe the point is revealed later, and the events they've seen tie certain plotlines together.
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  • TTODewbackTTODewback Pink haired tyrant On my throne of forum faces.Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Is Gendry going to replace Edric in the TV show now? Also, I swore the dead babies scene she called a pickled fetus "Edric"
    TTODewback on
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    TTODewback wrote: »
    Is Gendry going to replace Edric in the TV show now? Also, I swore the dead babies scene she called a pickled fetus "Edric"

    Certainly looks like it.

    The show has had a lot of these little book shout-outs this season. My favorite was Cersei telling Tyrion that his nose didn't look as bad as she had heard - rumors were that it had been cut completely off.
  • SicariiSicarii Registered User regular
    I'm 99% convinced that it's just people bitching about the scenes simply because they are uncomfortable with what is being depicted, possibly in part due to demanding punishment for Theon's actions and now being confronted with what they've essentially been clamoring for. And it's not satisfying to watch, it's uncomfortable. Because of said discomfort, they want the scenes to be over with, and don't even bother thinking about what is going on and simply want the paydirt from all the plot development happening without having to sit through that part of the plot. In part due to distaste, in part due to feelings of guilt(I'm speculating like hell here, btw).

    And yes, it's irritating as fuck. Hasn't the production crew and the plot so far shown that the series is not filled with spurious bullshit, and almost everything carries the plot forward in some way? People should have a little faith instead of trusting their 10 second analysis of what is happening and considering the result as gospel. Maybe there is a point to these scenes, and they have just missed it. Maybe the point is revealed later, and the events they've seen tie certain plotlines together.

    There are going to be some very annoyed people after Theon's subplot isn't resolved in any meaningful way this season.
    korrasig2.jpg
  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    Pretty sure Gendry will have an appointment with three leeches.
  • BlendtecBlendtec PittsburghRegistered User regular
    Sicarii wrote: »
    There are going to be some very annoyed people after Theon's subplot isn't resolved in any meaningful way this season.

    I dunno, they've dealt with Dany doing nothing for 3 years, they can wait for Theon. They actually seem to like Dany even, so maybe Theon Reeking around the North will be interesting to them too.
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    If a scene doesn't work for people, it doesn't work for people. By the way, a key test for the series is "does this work without having read the books?" So that argument is flat out nonsense. With Theon's scenes a sizable number of people (especially non-readers) don't get it because the show isn't even giving you much of a hint of why it's happening, who this character is, what his motivations are besides apparent sadism, etc. Maaaaybe when Bolton is revealed as a traitor in 16 days and people make the Flayed man/flaying cross connection it'll be a little more obvious. And maybe Theon will be Reek in the finale. But that's not a payoff.

    Most of the time on this show, scenes that are basically setting up an arc in the far future are also good scenes in and of themselves. I'd argue Bran's scenes this year suffer from the same problem, but they're also not intentionally annoying to watch. Generally, hiding a character's motives and not giving anyone a hint is a bad thing, both here and with Jojen.

    People can have differing opinions about art!
    I didn't like that plotline in the book, though I grudgingly respect it as a piece of writing. But I fucking loathe the Ironborn.
    My cousin made this game: Gem Pop. It's legitimately fun, particularly for people who enjoy Bejewled, Dr. Mario, Tetris, etc. kinds of games. Only two bucks! If you try it out, PM me with what you think of it.
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Sicarii wrote: »
    I'm 99% convinced that it's just people bitching about the scenes simply because they are uncomfortable with what is being depicted, possibly in part due to demanding punishment for Theon's actions and now being confronted with what they've essentially been clamoring for. And it's not satisfying to watch, it's uncomfortable. Because of said discomfort, they want the scenes to be over with, and don't even bother thinking about what is going on and simply want the paydirt from all the plot development happening without having to sit through that part of the plot. In part due to distaste, in part due to feelings of guilt(I'm speculating like hell here, btw).

    And yes, it's irritating as fuck. Hasn't the production crew and the plot so far shown that the series is not filled with spurious bullshit, and almost everything carries the plot forward in some way? People should have a little faith instead of trusting their 10 second analysis of what is happening and considering the result as gospel. Maybe there is a point to these scenes, and they have just missed it. Maybe the point is revealed later, and the events they've seen tie certain plotlines together.

    There are going to be some very annoyed people after Theon's subplot isn't resolved in any meaningful way this season.

    They'll probably have reason to be distracted enough to forget Theon.
    Mwahahaha
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  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    If a scene doesn't work for people, it doesn't work for people. By the way, a key test for the series is "does this work without having read the books?" So that argument is flat out nonsense. With Theon's scenes a sizable number of people (especially non-readers) don't get it because the show isn't even giving you much of a hint of why it's happening, who this character is, what his motivations are besides apparent sadism, etc. Maaaaybe when Bolton is revealed as a traitor in 16 days and people make the Flayed man/flaying cross connection it'll be a little more obvious. And maybe Theon will be Reek in the finale. But that's not a payoff.

    Most of the time on this show, scenes that are basically setting up an arc in the far future are also good scenes in and of themselves. I'd argue Bran's scenes this year suffer from the same problem, but they're also not intentionally annoying to watch. Generally, hiding a character's motives and not giving anyone a hint is a bad thing, both here and with Jojen.

    People can have differing opinions about art!
    I didn't like that plotline in the book, though I grudgingly respect it as a piece of writing. But I fucking loathe the Ironborn.

    Yeah, fuck the Ironborn. They're like vikings, but lame.
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  • SicariiSicarii Registered User regular
    I think the show-writers are doing a good job of transporting the material cross-medium.
    korrasig2.jpg
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Sicarii wrote: »
    I think the show-writers are doing a good job of transporting the material cross-medium.

    For like 95% I agree. If you pay attention like you would to say, The Wire, you know what's going on and can have a decent idea what's coming.
    enlightenedbum on
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  • SicariiSicarii Registered User regular
    From the other Thread:
    Man, now that I think about it, there's been a lot of amputation this season.

    (working from top to bottom)
    Karkstark's Head
    Unsullied Nipple
    Jaime's Hand -~- Theon's little finger
    Theon's...other little finger
    Now accepting bets on the next on-screen amputation.

    I got $20 on Jorah's ankle.

    Does Robb and Grey Wind net you $40? Or is it negated since it's just a switch.





    Aww that joke hit me right in the feels.
    korrasig2.jpg
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Sicarii wrote: »
    From the other Thread:
    Man, now that I think about it, there's been a lot of amputation this season.

    (working from top to bottom)
    Karkstark's Head
    Unsullied Nipple
    Jaime's Hand -~- Theon's little finger
    Theon's...other little finger
    Now accepting bets on the next on-screen amputation.

    I got $20 on Jorah's ankle.

    Does Robb and Grey Wind net you $40? Or is it negated since it's just a switch.





    Aww that joke hit me right in the feels.

    Oddly enough, I never gave much of a shit about Robb and what he got up to, so some of the effect got lost on me.
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  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    Sicarii wrote: »
    From the other Thread:
    Man, now that I think about it, there's been a lot of amputation this season.

    (working from top to bottom)
    Karkstark's Head
    Unsullied Nipple
    Jaime's Hand -~- Theon's little finger
    Theon's...other little finger
    Now accepting bets on the next on-screen amputation.

    I got $20 on Jorah's ankle.

    Does Robb and Grey Wind net you $40? Or is it negated since it's just a switch.





    Aww that joke hit me right in the feels.

    Was just about to cross-post that. Ooof.

    Not to mention we may get a threat of another 'other little finger' removal next episode.
  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Isn't that like taking bets from a guy waving a Sports Almanac from the future in your face? If so, what's the action on some person involved in Ned Stark's downfall getting beheaded a couple seasons from now? :twisted:
    GONG-00 on
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