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At 40 minutes it probably doesn't matter, as the enemy carries should be online by that point. I mean maybe he's trying to flash farm mjolnir at that point, but bitching at supports blasting creep waves at 40 min. is pretty poor form. Go farm ancients or team push towers if you need more cash.
Edit: Although if dude politely asks you to leave him waves to farm, you should absolutely do that.
I was trying to push towers. Serious question though, If we are trying to push a T2 tower after a teamfight that took out a few of the other team, should we not being doing it as quick as possible? Neather blast hurts towers. I usually wait until their creep wave rolls up on it and hit them with a blast.
Is that stealing farm? Sorry if this sounds snarky.
gamertag: Canadianllama
You shouldn't follow him around while he farms though.
Although an alch who only has heart and cuirass at 40 minutes is farming really, really poorly.
This was my point to him. I have no problem being support to a carry but not take insults for trying to win the game.
gamertag: Canadianllama
Anyway, with so few items finished late game, on a Carry who basically carries by gold-snowballing with his passive, do you really want to invest more farm time into him when the team clearly ain't gonna benefit that much from it? I wouldn't. At that point piss on your farm Alch, we're 5 man pushing towers to either get a rax, or free up a rosh attempt.
Unfortunately, the short answer is yes, it is. Riot is arguably much farther ahead in managing the toxic community these games foster though. Valve is working on it, but it's still very rudimentary.
:^: wards, flying courier (or having a courier at all), and supports camping runes (or even ganking mid) can absolutely turn mid lane. Unfortunately I get the first two things way less often than I should, and the latter two almost never. Ganking mid from the side instead of mid ganking for you is a mindblowing concept in pubs.
Or is this instead of warding the rune spawns?
It's really not worth watching a bunch of noobs be noobs, but everyone was bitching, not just the carry. It was more of a typical pub game, poor communication, high tension stuff.
Anyways just funny to see a link to a game I played in on here
Attendee: East 2013
Wow! Small world!
I was trying to be constructive with some of the comments but i do apologize if I came off as a dick at any point. I was lucky that I got a hero that I am not bad it in the draw. My buddy was the Zeus in that game and he hates playing him with a passion. I got specter in a random draft a few days ago and did exactly that. I fed all game and probably lost us the game.
I just did not understand the LH stealing comments when anyone killed a creep when Alchemist was anywhere near them. But' it's done.
Hit me up on steam and we should try a game again! We have a vent server so it will make the communication a bit better.
gamertag: Canadianllama
I'd love to play with you sometime, and you too @blazefire. I'm at work so I don't have my steam profile on hand, but just PM or something and we can hook up. I'm always in favor of playing with real people, sure beats the pub trash
Attendee: East 2013
Not instead of warding, but in addition to it. Either guard the spawn till mid can get there, or take it if mid doesn't want it so you can deny their mid the rune.
I think the "mid ought to gank," thing is LoL's fault.
Pretty much anything other than magically doing everything they think you ought to be doing, as a support, is a mindblowing concept in pubs. I had a Drow the other day demanding I pull but he didn't want to wait for stacks and would immediately get Slark jumped if I left the lane.
World's Largest Dungeon 4E as Torbera
BSG Exodus Game 17 as Tom Zarek
Twilight Imperium Game 7 as Muaat
LoL prioritizes mid ganks because mid is such a safe lane compared to the side lanes. And honestly...it's not like Dota2 is much different, in fact it's arguably safer since high ground comes into play, as well as towers punishing dives much harder.
A lot of pub supports are under the impression that pulling is objectively a good thing regardless of what's happening in the lane.
You get solo xp and farm. Significant amounts compared to the side lanes. (In a 2 1 2 comp anyway.) In my opinion of you go mid, you're job is to take that farm and xp and then do something with it. Not be babysat by the support in bot lane.
Edit: Though I suppose I should amend the original comment to include early game resources.
That's ridiculous. Most common mids excel at getting kills or setting them up. Maybe they won't get solo kills on their mid opponent, unless it's like Pudge or QoP. But in my experience, once they go for a roam, it's not hard to use the level and gold advantage to get kills.
I have hard carries i'm babysitting demand pulls, even when it's clear they don't understand lane control and likely are going to get lit up the minute I do it as the creep wave collapses back to our tower. So after a couple of those, I don't like to do it anymore. Pubs are just too unreliable.
Stacking is different though, I find that to be super beneficial almost all the time.
The game on your steam list is the actual game but you will only be able to spectate games and tournaments with it. To play you need an invite but you're in luck! Everyone in this thread has literally two dozen invites left over. PM me if you need one. The community in pubs doesn't play the same game as pros, noone cries about metagames and having fixed lanes every single game. Try it out, won't cost you any money, unless your bandwidth is capped :P
About supports pulling:
Unstacked camp being pulled: Lane is pushed out, greater chance of being ganked, chased, you're further away from the tower.
Unstacked camp is pulled, then another camp is chain pulled: You see this in pro games with trilanes, hard to do solo in a pub, you'll probably miss some last hits, can be easily disrupted by the enemy if he knows you're doing it. On radiant you need something to clear trees to do this. This is actually a ton of exp for the support, if your carry won't be missing CS while you do this. If it's alchemist vs dark seer, don't do this, unless alche has like 9 tangos.
Stacked camp is pulled, 2 stacks will I think almost always kill the whole wave. The support hero doesn't get any exp for this, if you pull it again it's almost the same effect as the unstacked one. If you triple stack it and the carry can live and last hit under tower you can just keep having it eat whole creep waves. Even better if it has a wolf camp in it. I don't know if this is actually that good of an idea but it's easy to do.
About mid:
Ganking mid is a fucking great idea. Do it everytime if you can. All the time. Shutting down their mid is a fucking great idea, he's often the hero that wants to have a good mid game like nightstalker, templar assassin, storm spirit. Not always but often. Ganking storm before he's lvl 6 is so painful for him. Ganking pudge makes him a non factor. NS can bounce back but your mid will be flexing his muscles as a result of having an advantage in mid.
If the enemy has wards to prevent you from ganking the side lanes, like you're QOP, then just bring yourself a TP scroll. When you see a sidelane getting dived or your wards/side sees the enemy mid waiting somewhere, your lane can act dumb and you TP in to reverse the gank.
Also, about high level vs very high. I just checked my last few games, they're all in very high but the skill spectre is all over the place. The higher level it is though, the less people rage or bitch.
What do you think about naix mid? Versus anyone that can't skewer.
the problem is mid lane is short which hurts open wounds and naix doesn't make good use of bottle
Shit lane and rune control and there is very few times where another hero will be prioritized over naix for safe lane farm. So personally no, he isn't very good at it and above all: why?
People lose lanes, or sometimes just tie. If your mid is doing meh or not so great, expecting him to come save the day in your sidelane isn't gonna happen. And EVEN with the gold/xp advantage mass TP supports or good ward vision from the enemy can shut down a sidelane gank.
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So an unstacked pull isn't an absolute bad, but it is generally bad in laning situations. If you want to blast their T1 tower very quickly instead of piece by piece without bringing in a lot of people, it can give you a good wave.
Yeah. We were actually in a situation when a pull would've helped lane management, the first time, but like I said, he then walked right into Slark as I was setting up the stack.
I honestly do not suck at support, at least on Shadow Demon now that I've got the hang of him, but man, it's hard to play that worth a damn if people don't expect it.
Best thing about Shadow Demon pulls is how quickly you can clear the stacks with Shadow Poison, imo.
World's Largest Dungeon 4E as Torbera
BSG Exodus Game 17 as Tom Zarek
Twilight Imperium Game 7 as Muaat
How do you check afterwards?
DotaBuff
Twitch
You go into the game replays menu and search for your game by using your name and "very high" or "high" selected in the search filters.
That wasn't my experience. There were way more smurfs due to first-win-of-the-day bonuses and having to buy heroes. And its really people who are used to playing higher up that flame people who screw up. Not nearly as much of a point with smurfing in Dota. Although it can be used to escape low priority, and low priority/comm bans are generally the type of people that flame.
Anyways, LoL is definitely worse for just 1 important reason. Pub meta. 1 tanky dps top, ap mid, ad+support bottom. violate the meta, get reported.
one thing to keep in mind is Alch's Greevil's Greed. As long as he kills a creep every 25 seconds, he maintains his stacks. If you wiped out a whole wave with nether blast, you might have robbed him of quite a bit of potential lost income.
Also, I think your item build was pretty questionable.