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North Country [chat]land

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Posts

  • TavTav Registered User regular
    hate eating is such an apt term for how I ate at that weight
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-28/cash-better-than-food-stamps-in-helping-poor-commentary-by-edward-glaeser.html
    The conventional economic logic is that cash transfers are more effective at helping the poor than in-kind gifts, such as food stamps and housing vouchers. I am grateful for the freedom I enjoy when spending my earnings; surely, aid recipients also like autonomy. They can choose the spending that best fits their needs if they are given unrestricted income. In “Free to Choose,” this logic led Milton and Rose Friedman to argue for “replacing the ragbag of specific programs with a single comprehensive program of income supplements in cash.”
    This will of course never happen for various reasons.

    I distrust anything that's sold to me with no rationale except that it is "conventional wisdom", and doubly so when it deals with economics.

    The available evidence points to the "conventional economic logic" here being correct:

    http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/167421/the-basic-income-guarantee-good-idea-bad-idea/p1
    I am comforted by Richard Dawkins’ theory of memes. Those are mental units: thoughts, ideas, gestures, notions, songs, beliefs, rhymes, ideals, teachings, sayings, phrases, clichés that move from mind to mind as genes move from body to body. After a lifetime of writing, teaching, broadcasting and telling too many jokes, I will leave behind more memes than many. They will all also eventually die, but so it goes. - Roger Ebert, I Do Not Fear Death
  • Irond WillIrond Will Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    So It Goes wrote: »
    also if you're poor you no longer get to make ethical food choices yay

    Poor people don't make ethical food choices because they can't afford to.

    It is such a limited thing that the fact that a government is wasting its time trying to fight it is mind-boggling to me.

    we're talking about wic vouchers, right?
  • So It GoesSo It Goes Sip. Sip sip sippy. Dumb whores. Best friends.Registered User regular
    Irond Will wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    also if you're poor you no longer get to make ethical food choices yay

    you don't get to be too picky at the soup kitchen, i guess.

    this type of attitude (of course amplified) is what drives this "welfare poor shoudn't get nice things"

    "beggars can't be choosers" suddenly becomes "government assistance shouldn't actually be helpful because then everyone will use it!" which is just ugh
    NO.
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    Irond Will wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    also if you're poor you no longer get to make ethical food choices yay

    Poor people don't make ethical food choices because they can't afford to.

    It is such a limited thing that the fact that a government is wasting its time trying to fight it is mind-boggling to me.

    we're talking about wic vouchers, right?

    What?

    No, we were talking about Wisconsin making specious and pointless changes to the food stamps law restricting what people can buy for really no good reason.

    Like, who these people you think are spending all this money they don't have on food they can't afford? Are they perhaps living with the guys selling their obamaphones for crack money?

    It is not an issue. It just isn't. It is just another head of the Welfare Queen hydra.
    Lh96QHG.png
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    also if you're poor you no longer get to make ethical food choices yay

    you don't get to be too picky at the soup kitchen, i guess.

    this type of attitude (of course amplified) is what drives this "welfare poor shoudn't get nice things"

    "beggars can't be choosers" suddenly becomes "government assistance shouldn't actually be helpful because then everyone will use it!" which is just ugh

    ding ding ding
    Lh96QHG.png
  • WinkyWinky Registered User regular
    They should have "Pay to Lose" games.

    Where you start out ridiculously super powered so nothing is fun, and you have to pay in order to have your stats reduced and abilities removed so that there's actually a fun challenge involved.
    vspgsp.jpg
  • skippydumptruckskippydumptruck FAK U HODGEHEG Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    also if you're poor you no longer get to make ethical food choices yay

    you don't get to be too picky at the soup kitchen, i guess.

    this type of attitude (of course amplified) is what drives this "welfare poor shoudn't get nice things"

    "beggars can't be choosers" suddenly becomes "government assistance shouldn't actually be helpful because then everyone will use it!" which is just ugh

    also I think its one thing at an actual soup kitchen like, hey this is the shit we have. if you are hungry, this is your choice

    vs artificially adding that into a system where youre not feeding people on donations from a food bank or whatever
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    But a lot of that weight loss isn't from this program, just generally not hate eating a pizza every day.

    Honestly, diet is like 80-90% of weight loss. Being active will help you burn more calories and create a larger caloric deficit, as well as hold onto and build muscle mass that will itself consume more calories. I hit a plateau with my weight loss, and literally as soon as I quit soda cold turkey, another 10 lbs. fell off almost instantly.

    It was like a wizard stole my love handles.

    Oh yeah, diet is the big thing that you have to get a handle on.

    I just like that I can run an entire mile without passing out again.
    Lh96QHG.png
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    Do they serve Coca Cola in soup kitchens?
    FrenchCat2.jpg
  • GooeyGooey Registered User regular
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    Gooey wrote: »
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    That Wisconsin WIC thing reminds me of a thread I've been meaning to make:

    Where do we libs (and let's be real, we're basically all dirty libs in D&D) draw the line in terms of gubmint intervention in people's lives? The specific thing that made me think of this is that apparently Obamacare in California will allow insurers to continue discriminate against smokers (read: tack on a surcharge for their health insurance). Maintaining the policy creates a situation where smokers either pay a substantially higher amount for healthcare, or go without healthcare because it's too expensive; if insurers aren't allow to discriminate against insurers, insurers are forced to foot the bill for people who iirc are statistically more likely to utilize healthcare and to some extent are not incentivized to quit smoking, which hurts not only them, but society in general when you factor in the costs that afaik they add in healthcare usage with or without insurance.

    ,': |

    I said "basically" !

    That wasn't a normative statement that being not-a-lib is a bad thing -- just a reflection of my impression of D&D based on pretty much every politics thread I've posted in.

    i know, i just really like this face

    ,': |
    919UOwT.png
  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    I've been jogging for 2 months now on a progressive interval schedule (nearing 200km total), weightloss hasn't been as high as I was hoping, but it's happening and the increased fitness is nice, and the biggest unexpected change was the impact on my sleep cycle. Physical tiredness makes falling asleep a breeze.
    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
  • skippydumptruckskippydumptruck FAK U HODGEHEG Registered User regular
    we should give poor folks MREs
  • HamurabiHamurabi Registered User regular
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    But a lot of that weight loss isn't from this program, just generally not hate eating a pizza every day.

    Honestly, diet is like 80-90% of weight loss. Being active will help you burn more calories and create a larger caloric deficit, as well as hold onto and build muscle mass that will itself consume more calories. I hit a plateau with my weight loss, and literally as soon as I quit soda cold turkey, another 10 lbs. fell off almost instantly.

    It was like a wizard stole my love handles.

    Oh yeah, diet is the big thing that you have to get a handle on.

    I just like that I can run an entire mile without passing out again.

    I guarantee you this is more than me.

    Oh god I'm so out of shape. :cry:
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Do they serve Coca Cola in soup kitchens?

    No that's the Coca-Cola Kitchen.

    Sponsored by Pepsi.

    A Spike Lee Joint.
    network_sig2.png
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    idk, i think that in 30 years when all of our tax money is going to fight diabetes for people on medicaid we might be able to look back and realize stopping all those silly poors from spending money on organic milk was quite possibly a massive waste of time.
    Lh96QHG.png
  • Irond WillIrond Will Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    Irond Will wrote: »
    It is incentivizing a less healthy lifestyle.

    THAT is the problem.

    the "no organic milk" and "no brown eggs" with wic vouchers?

    i guess i don't understand how organic milk or brown eggs have anything to do with a healthy lifestyle when compared to conventional milk or white eggs.

    It's also soy milk and organic anything and reusable containers and any number of completely pointless caveats to food assistant.

    And again, if they're serious about stopping junk food consumption, where are the restrictions chef boyardee and oreos?

    You gotta peel back the banana to see how full of shit these people are sometimes.

    yeah i guess i'd agree with putting spaghetti-o's and oreos on the "do not buy" list. obesity is a large problem in general and a massive problem with the very poor, and the vast majority of this is caused by poor food choices.

    like - you have a voucher for a food item given to you as public assistance. it seems okay (to me!) to restrict stuff that's too expensive and stuff that's too bad for you.

    it seems like a good opportunity to actually encourage good food choices. sure it's low-octane social engineering but that doesn't really bother me.

    it precludes some choices that various people might want to make - whether it's buying junk food or it's buying expensive, boutique stuff or it's buying alcohol or smokes or you'd rather just go see a movie instead.

    i guess this doesn't really bother me that much
  • TL DRTL DR Registered User regular
    we should give poor folks MREs

    Pshh, just give them M and they can bootstrap until the M is RE
    eokNV.jpg
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Do they serve Coca Cola in soup kitchens?

    Actually, sometimes yes

    the local place I volunteered at had quite a bit of coca cola (they give food to shelters/individuals/church groups/etc for distribution) because its so much cheaper to get than milk and orange juice and whatnot
  • HamurabiHamurabi Registered User regular
    idk, i think that in 30 years when all of our tax money is going to fight diabetes for people on medicaid we might be able to look back and realize stopping all those silly poors from spending money on organic milk was quite possibly a massive waste of time.

    I love that like 9 times out of 10 a nutrition/fitness/public health thread will boil down to (legitimate) wargle-bargle about corn subsidies.
    network_sig2.png
  • Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    But a lot of that weight loss isn't from this program, just generally not hate eating a pizza every day.

    Honestly, diet is like 80-90% of weight loss. Being active will help you burn more calories and create a larger caloric deficit, as well as hold onto and build muscle mass that will itself consume more calories. I hit a plateau with my weight loss, and literally as soon as I quit soda cold turkey, another 10 lbs. fell off almost instantly.

    It was like a wizard stole my love handles.

    is true

    is why im still got this gut and love handles

    but i do find that exercising makes me want to eat healthier, vs sitting around doing nothing
    | Steam & XBL: Shazkar |
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    It is incentivizing a less healthy lifestyle.

    THAT is the problem.

    the "no organic milk" and "no brown eggs" with wic vouchers?

    i guess i don't understand how organic milk or brown eggs have anything to do with a healthy lifestyle when compared to conventional milk or white eggs.

    It's also soy milk and organic anything and reusable containers and any number of completely pointless caveats to food assistant.

    And again, if they're serious about stopping junk food consumption, where are the restrictions chef boyardee and oreos?

    You gotta peel back the banana to see how full of shit these people are sometimes.

    yeah i guess i'd agree with putting spaghetti-o's and oreos on the "do not buy" list. obesity is a large problem in general and a massive problem with the very poor, and the vast majority of this is caused by poor food choices.

    like - you have a voucher for a food item given to you as public assistance. it seems okay (to me!) to restrict stuff that's too expensive and stuff that's too bad for you.

    it seems like a good opportunity to actually encourage good food choices. sure it's low-octane social engineering but that doesn't really bother me.

    it precludes some choices that various people might want to make - whether it's buying junk food or it's buying expensive, boutique stuff or it's buying alcohol or smokes or you'd rather just go see a movie instead.

    i guess this doesn't really bother me that much

    obesity isn't so much a problem with the very poor

    it's a big problem for the poor to lower middle class
  • FeralFeral Who needs a medical license when you've got style? Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Irond Will wrote: »
    yeah i guess i'd agree with putting spaghetti-o's and oreos on the "do not buy" list. obesity is a large problem in general and a massive problem with the very poor, and the vast majority of this is caused by poor food choices.

    I don't think there's strong evidence for that, actually.
    Feral on
    I am comforted by Richard Dawkins’ theory of memes. Those are mental units: thoughts, ideas, gestures, notions, songs, beliefs, rhymes, ideals, teachings, sayings, phrases, clichés that move from mind to mind as genes move from body to body. After a lifetime of writing, teaching, broadcasting and telling too many jokes, I will leave behind more memes than many. They will all also eventually die, but so it goes. - Roger Ebert, I Do Not Fear Death
  • HamurabiHamurabi Registered User regular
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    But a lot of that weight loss isn't from this program, just generally not hate eating a pizza every day.

    Honestly, diet is like 80-90% of weight loss. Being active will help you burn more calories and create a larger caloric deficit, as well as hold onto and build muscle mass that will itself consume more calories. I hit a plateau with my weight loss, and literally as soon as I quit soda cold turkey, another 10 lbs. fell off almost instantly.

    It was like a wizard stole my love handles.

    is true

    is why im still got this gut and love handles

    but i do find that exercising makes me want to eat healthier, vs sitting around doing nothing

    Gotta hit that 2 hr post-workout protein window, bro.

    Massive gains.




    (I still <3 the [Bigman] thread.)
    network_sig2.png
  • HenroidHenroid Baba Booey to y'all Tyler, TX (where hope comes to die!)Registered User regular
    Deus Ex real talk.

    We never see JC Denton sleep or poop. Now, we can assume that the helicopter rides throughout the game allow for the sleeping. But I doubt the helicopter has a bathroom in it.

    Conclusion: "My butt is augmented."
    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit." - @Ludious
    Unmotivate - Updated May 17th - "Let's Complain About Nintendo"
    The PA Forumer 'Lets Play' Archive - Updated March 25th, 2013
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    we should give poor folks MREs

    Astronaut food and vitamin tablets, as seen on The Jetsons.
    FrenchCat2.jpg
  • Irond WillIrond Will Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    Irond Will wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    also if you're poor you no longer get to make ethical food choices yay

    Poor people don't make ethical food choices because they can't afford to.

    It is such a limited thing that the fact that a government is wasting its time trying to fight it is mind-boggling to me.

    we're talking about wic vouchers, right?

    What?

    No, we were talking about Wisconsin making specious and pointless changes to the food stamps law restricting what people can buy for really no good reason.

    Like, who these people you think are spending all this money they don't have on food they can't afford? Are they perhaps living with the guys selling their obamaphones for crack money?

    It is not an issue. It just isn't. It is just another head of the Welfare Queen hydra.

    so i thought we were talking about the changes to the wisconsin wic vouchers

    those are what were posted originally iirc

    like, you can't use your wic voucher (for milk) to buy chocolate milk or the luxury brand

    that's really what i've been talking about
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    It is incentivizing a less healthy lifestyle.

    THAT is the problem.

    the "no organic milk" and "no brown eggs" with wic vouchers?

    i guess i don't understand how organic milk or brown eggs have anything to do with a healthy lifestyle when compared to conventional milk or white eggs.

    It's also soy milk and organic anything and reusable containers and any number of completely pointless caveats to food assistant.

    And again, if they're serious about stopping junk food consumption, where are the restrictions chef boyardee and oreos?

    You gotta peel back the banana to see how full of shit these people are sometimes.

    yeah i guess i'd agree with putting spaghetti-o's and oreos on the "do not buy" list. obesity is a large problem in general and a massive problem with the very poor, and the vast majority of this is caused by poor food choices.

    like - you have a voucher for a food item given to you as public assistance. it seems okay (to me!) to restrict stuff that's too expensive and stuff that's too bad for you.

    it seems like a good opportunity to actually encourage good food choices. sure it's low-octane social engineering but that doesn't really bother me.

    it precludes some choices that various people might want to make - whether it's buying junk food or it's buying expensive, boutique stuff or it's buying alcohol or smokes or you'd rather just go see a movie instead.

    i guess this doesn't really bother me that much

    And you know, what I've been trying to be clear about is that I get where you are coming from.

    But I've also been trying to say that it is a waste of time. People on assistance aren't blowing their wads on expensive foods. They're buying cheap foods that last a long time (so foods high in sugar, high in sodium, high in preservatives that are questionably useful to your digestive system).

    There is a problem with food stamps, but it isn't the ability to buy organic milk. I'm not saying that this should make the people rise up and eat the rich, I'm saying that it is pointless and a symptom of the Beggars Can't Be Choosers/Poor People Shouldn't Have Nice Things (Do you own a car? Do you have a phone? Do you live with other people?) attitude that our entire country takes toward welfare, liberal and conservative.

    That's all. This is far from the worst thing that Republicans have ever done, especially when it comes to welfare, but it is pretty dumb.
    Lh96QHG.png
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    also if you're poor you no longer get to make ethical food choices yay

    Poor people don't make ethical food choices because they can't afford to.

    It is such a limited thing that the fact that a government is wasting its time trying to fight it is mind-boggling to me.

    we're talking about wic vouchers, right?

    What?

    No, we were talking about Wisconsin making specious and pointless changes to the food stamps law restricting what people can buy for really no good reason.

    Like, who these people you think are spending all this money they don't have on food they can't afford? Are they perhaps living with the guys selling their obamaphones for crack money?

    It is not an issue. It just isn't. It is just another head of the Welfare Queen hydra.

    so i thought we were talking about the changes to the wisconsin wic vouchers

    those are what were posted originally iirc

    like, you can't use your wic voucher (for milk) to buy chocolate milk or the luxury brand

    that's really what i've been talking about

    no they are taking the wic voucher standards and applying them to food stamps in wisconsin

    which is completely boneheaded because wic is meant for specific foods for mothers with infants and not meant to be all inclusive
  • Irond WillIrond Will Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    we should give poor folks MREs

    i ate those some when i was in college because we were stupidly poor and (because students) couldn't collect any kind of public assistance in texas.

    they were not tasty
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    https://www.msu.edu/~dickertc/301f06/whatarefoodstampsworth.pdf
    This looks to be a decent overview of food stamps and just giving cash.
    On the face of it, paying food stamp benefits in cash seems to be sensible public policy. Based on the method I developed to estimate the cash-equivalent value of food stamps, I calculate that about one-half billion of the 17 billion dollars of annual food stamp spending is deadweight loss. The half-billion in averted deadweight loss could be returned to the government’s coffers, or could be transferred back to the food stamp recipients who would then re-optimize their spending patterns. The government and retailers could also save a substantial amount on administration of the program with a cash-out, as seen in Table 7. Evidence suggests that nutritional intakes among food stamp recipients would not suffer. But what are the drawbacks?
  • skippydumptruckskippydumptruck FAK U HODGEHEG Registered User regular
    my hair is too darn long

    I am going to shave my head
  • MadCaddyMadCaddy Riksadvokate Registered User regular
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    idk, i think that in 30 years when all of our tax money is going to fight diabetes for people on medicaid we might be able to look back and realize stopping all those silly poors from spending money on organic milk was quite possibly a massive waste of time.

    I love that like 9 times out of 10 a nutrition/fitness/public health thread will boil down to (legitimate) wargle-bargle about corn subsidies.

    Root causes of diseases are generally thirst thing to treat than symptoms, but it's like I quoted last night, "it's hard to get a man to understand that which his salary depends on him not to."
    League of Legends: SorryNotRly Steam: MMForYourHealth Hero Academy: MadCaddy
  • skippydumptruckskippydumptruck FAK U HODGEHEG Registered User regular
    Irond Will wrote: »
    we should give poor folks MREs

    i ate those some when i was in college because we were stupidly poor and (because students) couldn't collect any kind of public assistance in texas.

    they were not tasty

    yes they are not

    also I think they are like 2-3000 cal ea because soldiers need energy

    also I was so tired in basic (where we ate them for a week) that I ate the instant coffee grounds
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    also by criminalizing food stamps fraud and increasing the incentive to commit said fraud (trading food stamps for dollars or, I buy you some milk you buy me some sharp cheddar because my food stamps can't buy sharp cheddar anymore) we'll get lots more very poor people in prison

    which is always a plus
    override367 on
  • MadCaddyMadCaddy Riksadvokate Registered User regular
    And no one touched my point,s I've decided this conversation is just about internet peen and anecdotes. ;)
    League of Legends: SorryNotRly Steam: MMForYourHealth Hero Academy: MadCaddy
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    yeah i guess i'd agree with putting spaghetti-o's and oreos on the "do not buy" list. obesity is a large problem in general and a massive problem with the very poor, and the vast majority of this is caused by poor food choices.

    I don't think there's strong evidence for that, actually.

    Googling around looking for purchasing habits of SNAP card holders led to this.

    http://www.cspinet.org/new/201007151.html
    SNAP participants appear to purchase at least 40 percent more carbonated soft drinks than other consumers do. At one major supermarket chain, SNAP participants bought 4.3 percent of carbonated soft drinks even though they only represented 1.8 percent of transactions. At another large chain, carbonated soft drinks accounted for 6.19 percent of the grocery bills of SNAP participants.
    FrenchCat2.jpg
  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    GODDAMMIT!
    Steam ID: DoctorArch Xbox Live: DoctorArch
  • TTODewbackTTODewback Pink haired tyrant On my throne of forum faces.Registered User regular
    Meeting was boring.
    Which is a lot better than the horrific vortex of depression that the last couple have been.
  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    Screw you you stupid application system that requires me to enter each and every one of my jobs manually and then logs me out and erases forty-five minutes of work.

    Steam ID: DoctorArch Xbox Live: DoctorArch
This discussion has been closed.