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North Country [chat]land

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Posts

  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    also if you're poor you no longer get to make ethical food choices yay

    you don't get to be too picky at the soup kitchen, i guess.

    this type of attitude (of course amplified) is what drives this "welfare poor shoudn't get nice things"

    "beggars can't be choosers" suddenly becomes "government assistance shouldn't actually be helpful because then everyone will use it!" which is just ugh

    what is the right solution? should we have any restrictions on public assistance?

    would you be okay with allowing organic milk on wic vouchers (and cage-free eggs and the equivalent across the various vouchers) if it meant that the funding didn't go as far only half the number of people were allowed to qualify?

    should there be any guidelines, structures or restrictions to encourage people from spending all their food stamp money on junkfood? is it problematic if people do this?

    Ideally, assuming that little things like politics and public perception weren't obstacles, we should just give people cash assistance. No stamps, no vouchers, no restrictions. Just X dollars per month and the freedom to spend it as they please.

    Vegetables and milk? Great! Whiskey and porn mags? Fine, whatever, it's your money.

    It's not "their" money though. It's government assistance. It's designed to both help them when they need it, while getting off it as soon as they're able. It's not supposed to be a crutch.

    So if my nephew's food stamps restrict what he can buy it will cure his blindness and he'll be able to get back on his feet?

    Also my great-aunt will get young and become a laborer again?
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    also I think the notion that kickstarter is, or even should be, for people who "need" it is complete bullshit. It is for people who can make good use of the funding. Which is very often the very people who need it least.
    What you think "makes sense" has nothing to do with reality. It just has to do with your life experience. And your life experience may only be a small smidgen of reality. Possibly even a distorted account of reality at that. So what this means is that, beginning in the 20th century as our means of decoding nature became more and more powerful, we started realizing our common sense is no longer a tool to pass judgment on whether or not a scientific theory is correct. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
  • HamurabiHamurabi Registered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    Are the PA guys multimillionaires? They must be by now, right?

    I dunno about millionaires.

    But at least one of them drives a Mercedes, so, y'know...
    network_sig2.png
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    Are the PA guys multimillionaires? They must be by now, right?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3ZhhFMq6otk
    Lh96QHG.png
  • TTODewbackTTODewback Pink haired tyrant On my throne of forum faces.Registered User regular
    So really Gabe just wants to stop by Five Guys on the way home?
    So he started a kick starter to pay for it.
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    i should make a "feed me for a day" kickstarter with, like, a 50 dollar goal.

    And then i'll write a review of the food i ate

    can't do "fund my life / lifestyle" kickstarters.

    This is a project with a concrete deliverable goal: a new series of podcasts. There is nothing even the slightest bit skeevy about it.
    What you think "makes sense" has nothing to do with reality. It just has to do with your life experience. And your life experience may only be a small smidgen of reality. Possibly even a distorted account of reality at that. So what this means is that, beginning in the 20th century as our means of decoding nature became more and more powerful, we started realizing our common sense is no longer a tool to pass judgment on whether or not a scientific theory is correct. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Six pack on a dick Registered User regular
    Hooray edge cases.
    h1DI1.jpg
  • JeanJean Northern Alberta , CanadaRegistered User regular
    I think it's in the interest of everyone to treat the underclass correctly.

    A well fed, well sheltered underclass is less likely to revolt than one who have nothing to loose, for one.

    Well fed people also make more productive workers when they do get a job. Well fed children makes better student thus better workers in the future. Also, why should children pay for the poor life choices of their parents?

    Treating the poor well is not only the humane thing to do, it's also the smart thing to do.
    "You won't destroy us, You won't destroy our democracy. We are a small but proud nation. No one can bomb us to silence. No one can scare us from being Norway. This evening and tonight, we'll take care of each other. That's what we do best when attacked'' - Jens Stoltenberg
  • kaleeditykaleedity bad biscuits make the baker broke bro Registered User regular
    I don't understand how kickstarter is an ethics issue. I do not desire what's in the current PA kickstarter so I won't pay them. What's the issue with them running another one?
  • Irond WillIrond Will Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    Feral wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    also if you're poor you no longer get to make ethical food choices yay

    you don't get to be too picky at the soup kitchen, i guess.

    this type of attitude (of course amplified) is what drives this "welfare poor shoudn't get nice things"

    "beggars can't be choosers" suddenly becomes "government assistance shouldn't actually be helpful because then everyone will use it!" which is just ugh

    what is the right solution? should we have any restrictions on public assistance?

    would you be okay with allowing organic milk on wic vouchers (and cage-free eggs and the equivalent across the various vouchers) if it meant that the funding didn't go as far only half the number of people were allowed to qualify?

    should there be any guidelines, structures or restrictions to encourage people from spending all their food stamp money on junkfood? is it problematic if people do this?

    Ideally, assuming that little things like politics and public perception weren't obstacles, we should just give people cash assistance. No stamps, no vouchers, no restrictions. Just X dollars per month and the freedom to spend it as they please.

    Vegetables and milk? Great! Whiskey and porn mags? Fine, whatever, it's your money.

    maybe?

    the point of public assistance is to fulfill a public need

    "poor people can't eat" or "poor people have nowhere to live" or "poor people don't have health care" are all public need

    "poor people don't have enough whiskey" isn't, really.

    and a society okay with the fact that the guy starving in the gutter is there because he blew his public assistance check on whiskey is a society a tiny tiny step away from being okay with the fact that the guy starving in the gutter is there because he made poor life choices at some less immediate time in his life.
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    If the outcomes are the same or better when just giving them cash and easier to administer, you might as well just switch to giving cash.
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    kaleedity wrote: »
    I don't understand how kickstarter is an ethics issue. I do not desire what's in the current PA kickstarter so I won't pay them. What's the issue with them running another one?

    because some people get deeply silly about kickstarter and crowdfunding
    What you think "makes sense" has nothing to do with reality. It just has to do with your life experience. And your life experience may only be a small smidgen of reality. Possibly even a distorted account of reality at that. So what this means is that, beginning in the 20th century as our means of decoding nature became more and more powerful, we started realizing our common sense is no longer a tool to pass judgment on whether or not a scientific theory is correct. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    Ideally, assuming that little things like politics and public perception weren't obstacles, we should just give people cash assistance. No stamps, no vouchers, no restrictions. Just X dollars per month and the freedom to spend it as they please.

    Vegetables and milk? Great! Whiskey and porn mags? Fine, whatever, it's your money.

    I'd agree with this if you dismantled all government funded public assistance programs and placed all those benefits into one monthly payment.
    FrenchCat2.jpg
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    I think a lot of people have a profound misunderstanding of what SNAP is for

    "Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program"

    as opposed to

    "Temporary Assistance for Needy Families" ("welfare")

    Now I can assure you that just being on food stamps is a pretty good incentive to get off of food stamps if you are able bodied, as making $15k a year is not joyous, but it is fundamentally different than TANF because it is also permanent for poor elderly and disabled people which account for something like 12 million of the people on it
    override367 on
  • DaemonSadiDaemonSadi Registered User regular
    Holy fuck people are stupid. I'm a buyer and frequently wonder what the shit other companies are doing.

    I got an email from one of my contacts that was forwarding a message from their warehouse.

    "You placed a new order for SOMEPART. Does you customer know they still have ORDERNUMBEROLDASFUCK open for ACOMPLETELYFUCKINGDIFFERENTPART? I am not running more of these when they have 15,000 pieces left on this old order and haven't ordered any since 3/12"

    So... note only is this second order a different fucking part but HEY GUESS WHAT? We received those 15,000 on 4/12. And then opened a WHOLE OTHER FUCKING ORDER from which we have been received parts from 5/12 up until as recently as 4/13.

    What in the fucking shit.

    Have they really managed to send us over a years worth of parts without even knowing?
    archer2.png
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    If the outcomes are the same or better when just giving them cash and easier to administer, you might as well just switch to giving cash.

    Protestant Work Ethic
    Lh96QHG.png
  • MadCaddyMadCaddy Riksadvokate Registered User regular
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    Are the PA guys multimillionaires? They must be by now, right?

    I dunno about millionaires.

    But at least one of them drives a Mercedes, so, y'know...

    Which model? And statements like these are so funny.
    League of Legends: SorryNotRly Steam: MMForYourHealth Hero Academy: MadCaddy
  • Irond WillIrond Will Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    Irond Will wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    also if you're poor you no longer get to make ethical food choices yay

    you don't get to be too picky at the soup kitchen, i guess.

    this type of attitude (of course amplified) is what drives this "welfare poor shoudn't get nice things"

    "beggars can't be choosers" suddenly becomes "government assistance shouldn't actually be helpful because then everyone will use it!" which is just ugh

    what is the right solution? should we have any restrictions on public assistance?

    would you be okay with allowing organic milk on wic vouchers (and cage-free eggs and the equivalent across the various vouchers) if it meant that the funding didn't go as far only half the number of people were allowed to qualify?

    should there be any guidelines, structures or restrictions to encourage people from spending all their food stamp money on junkfood? is it problematic if people do this?

    This strikes me as a massive strawman.

    Here's a better question: is this actually an issue? Are there legions of starving children out there because their parents spend WIC coupons on organic milk and cage free eggs so by the time the 15th comes around they're out of food?

    WIC isn't a dollar amount - it's a fixed unit based on a coupon.

    so if you buy the expensive milk, the government gets charged twice as much

    i guess the way they normally handle it is to scale the amounts depending on the cost. like the option of three cans condensed milk, one gallon of milk, or a half-gallon of organic milk.

    i'm not really sure if that solves the problem, exactly, since the half-gallon of organic milk has half the nutrients of the gallon of milk. but i think that's how they generally do it.
  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    Alright I'll give you the idea behind the whole Slenderman thing can be creepy on the surface.

    But this whole marble hornets bullshit is d-grade schlock. This Alex guy can't act this jay guy can't act this one vid extra dude can't act. Nothing they do is remotely believable and the lines dear fucking lord the lines. Oh hey jay that little wood whittler of a knife sure is gonna save you from eldritch horrors bro totes.

    It's all very lonelygirl15 without the annoyingly cute sacrificial virgin.
    _J_ wrote:
    If we only allowed pedophiles to be parents, then we would never have to worry about children being left alone, unwatched.
    XBL: Fanatical One AIM: itskagera
  • skippydumptruckskippydumptruck FAK U HODGEHEG Registered User regular
    It's not "their" money though. It's government assistance. It's designed to both help them when they need it, while getting off it as soon as they're able. It's not supposed to be a crutch.

    is your tax break for being married your money, or the one for owning a house
  • GooeyGooey Registered User regular
    I have a position that is now +201%

    i think all the inherent value has been extracted at this point and i am just riding the wave of the Dow

    it is a leveraged position so once the merry go round stops the entire thing will basically come crashing down

    so the question is how long is the dow rally going to last, and also how greedy am i

    i am feeling very greedy
    919UOwT.png
  • DeebaserDeebaser Way out in the water See it swimmin'?Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    If the outcomes are the same or better when just giving them cash and easier to administer, you might as well just switch to giving cash.

    The goal is to keep people from starving to death. Giving people food credits does a lot more to ensure this than giving people cash.
    #FreeThan
    #FreeScheck
    #FreeSKFM
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    How do conservatives square believing that people are generally rational as shown by their belief in the free market and thinking that poor people should be severely managed lest they spend their welfare on booze?

    I think their particular shit fit about it is, "The poor can spend the money they earn any damn way they want but welfare is my money and needs to be managed."
    FrenchCat2.jpg
  • Irond WillIrond Will Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    Couscous wrote: »
    How do conservatives square believing that people are generally rational as shown by their belief in the free market and thinking that poor people should be severely managed lest they spend their welfare on booze?

    poors are clearly not rational actors

    if they were, they wouldn't be poor

    and we wouldn't need to feed them and tell them how to make good life decisions

    duh
  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    If I was Slenderman I'd be getting my agent on the line trying to buy myself out of marble hornets and into a script deal with rob zombie.
    _J_ wrote:
    If we only allowed pedophiles to be parents, then we would never have to worry about children being left alone, unwatched.
    XBL: Fanatical One AIM: itskagera
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    also if you're poor you no longer get to make ethical food choices yay

    you don't get to be too picky at the soup kitchen, i guess.

    this type of attitude (of course amplified) is what drives this "welfare poor shoudn't get nice things"

    "beggars can't be choosers" suddenly becomes "government assistance shouldn't actually be helpful because then everyone will use it!" which is just ugh

    what is the right solution? should we have any restrictions on public assistance?

    would you be okay with allowing organic milk on wic vouchers (and cage-free eggs and the equivalent across the various vouchers) if it meant that the funding didn't go as far only half the number of people were allowed to qualify?

    should there be any guidelines, structures or restrictions to encourage people from spending all their food stamp money on junkfood? is it problematic if people do this?

    This strikes me as a massive strawman.

    Here's a better question: is this actually an issue? Are there legions of starving children out there because their parents spend WIC coupons on organic milk and cage free eggs so by the time the 15th comes around they're out of food?

    WIC isn't a dollar amount - it's a fixed unit based on a coupon.

    so if you buy the expensive milk, the government gets charged twice as much

    i guess the way they normally handle it is to scale the amounts depending on the cost. like the option of three cans condensed milk, one gallon of milk, or a half-gallon of organic milk.

    i'm not really sure if that solves the problem, exactly, since the half-gallon of organic milk has half the nutrients of the gallon of milk. but i think that's how they generally do it.

    which is why this is a straw man because it's not what we were talking about

    we aren't talking about increasing the expense to the government to give the poors a choice (although I could argue WIC is a horrendously flawed program, it gives out vouchers for sugar water called Juice)

    We are talking about food stamps, you have a finite amount, if you use them to buy a single 72 ounce dry aged piece of beef for the month and a lobster

    well you can still do that after these restrictions!

    But god forbid you buy the $2.99 eggs instead of the $1.99 eggs
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Deebaser wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    If the outcomes are the same or better when just giving them cash and easier to administer, you might as well just switch to giving cash.

    The goal is to keep people from starving to death. Giving people food credits does a lot more to ensure this than giving people cash.
    How many people do you think will starve if we just give them cash instead of food stamps? Do you really think that is such a huge problem that we need food stamps?
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Gooey wrote: »
    I have a position that is now +201%

    i think all the inherent value has been extracted at this point and i am just riding the wave of the Dow

    it is a leveraged position so once the merry go round stops the entire thing will basically come crashing down

    so the question is how long is the dow rally going to last, and also how greedy am i

    i am feeling very greedy

    riding the wave of the Dao
  • y2jake215y2jake215 oh ok yeah that's cool RAP GAME KiNG TUTRegistered User regular
    Gimme money gooby
    G2Dcf.jpg
  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    The thing with assisting those in need is that you can't force them to use that assistance wisely.

    _J_ wrote:
    If we only allowed pedophiles to be parents, then we would never have to worry about children being left alone, unwatched.
    XBL: Fanatical One AIM: itskagera
  • MadCaddyMadCaddy Riksadvokate Registered User regular
    Gooey wrote: »
    I have a position that is now +201%

    i think all the inherent value has been extracted at this point and i am just riding the wave of the Dow

    it is a leveraged position so once the merry go round stops the entire thing will basically come crashing down

    so the question is how long is the dow rally going to last, and also how greedy am i

    i am feeling very greedy

    *stifles a tear* it's so nice when they grow up.. Manage your own money, gooey, manage it good! Let me know what you buy, so I know what to short and well be the PA hedge!
    League of Legends: SorryNotRly Steam: MMForYourHealth Hero Academy: MadCaddy
  • TL DRTL DR Registered User regular
    Deebaser wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    If the outcomes are the same or better when just giving them cash and easier to administer, you might as well just switch to giving cash.

    The goal is to keep people from starving to death. Giving people food credits does a lot more to ensure this than giving people cash.

    Care to provide evidence for this?
    eokNV.jpg
  • syndalissyndalis Aballah Can Tah Advancing the Human ConditionRegistered User regular
    Gooey wrote: »
    I have a position that is now +201%

    i think all the inherent value has been extracted at this point and i am just riding the wave of the Dow

    it is a leveraged position so once the merry go round stops the entire thing will basically come crashing down

    so the question is how long is the dow rally going to last, and also how greedy am i

    i am feeling very greedy

    Gooby:

    couldn't you skim some of your winnings off, and let what is left ride the wave however it goes?

    That way, you have made moneys, and can still make more moneys.
    meat.jpg
  • TL DRTL DR Registered User regular
    Gooey wrote: »
    I have a position that is now +201%

    i think all the inherent value has been extracted at this point and i am just riding the wave of the Dow

    it is a leveraged position so once the merry go round stops the entire thing will basically come crashing down

    so the question is how long is the dow rally going to last, and also how greedy am i

    i am feeling very greedy

    i don't understand this

    but +201% sounds like a good thing

    you should go all the way, gooey!
    eokNV.jpg
  • STATE OF THE ART ROBOTSTATE OF THE ART ROBOT Registered User regular
    PA doing a kick starter sorta bothers me. This is for projects that have no funding right? So why is PA doing kicks tarter stuff?
  • DeebaserDeebaser Way out in the water See it swimmin'?Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Deebaser wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    If the outcomes are the same or better when just giving them cash and easier to administer, you might as well just switch to giving cash.

    The goal is to keep people from starving to death. Giving people food credits does a lot more to ensure this than giving people cash.
    How many people do you think will starve if we just give them cash instead of food stamps? Do you really think that is such a huge problem that we need food stamps?

    Yes.
    #FreeThan
    #FreeScheck
    #FreeSKFM
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    Kagera wrote: »
    The thing with assisting those in need is that you can't force them to use that assistance wisely.

    but you can definitely make a bunch of pointless rules to make yourself feel better about it though
    Lh96QHG.png
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    I explained short selling to my dad the other day, as best I could

    We sipped our beers and nodded and agreed that financiers are dark sorcerers and we should abolish the wage system
  • CindersCinders Registered User regular
    Kagera wrote: »
    If I was Slenderman I'd be getting my agent on the line trying to buy myself out of marble hornets and into a script deal with rob zombie.

    http://variety.com/2013/digital/news/marble-hornets-flying-to-bigscreen-818489/
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Deebaser wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    If the outcomes are the same or better when just giving them cash and easier to administer, you might as well just switch to giving cash.

    The goal is to keep people from starving to death. Giving people food credits does a lot more to ensure this than giving people cash.
    How many people do you think will starve if we just give them cash instead of food stamps? Do you really think that is such a huge problem that we need food stamps?

    If we were talking about starting the program from scratch I'd agree, but the basic EBT infrastructure is already in place

    And it's not so much that people would starve but several hundred thousand bad parents would buy tvs or something instead of enough food for their kids for the month. This still happens with food stamps but less, and it'd still be like .1%

    but there's no reason to put the money into changing it, really, since the whole program is already in place. It should be weekly, not monthly though.

    Also we should bring back welfare
This discussion has been closed.