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WHAT THE [CHAT]

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Posts

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Sometimes I feel like The West Wing was the worst thing to ever happen to this country in the same way that I imagine lawyers and cops loath CSI.

    Do you have to hate everything I enjoy?

    I love the West Wing.

    I just don't like people who apply WW logic to the real world.

    I hate them both.

    The West Wing gives a decent approximation of the various de jure powers of political actors, but then gets how people actually behave completely wrong; it fucks up what the incentives are, the stuff that actually matters.

    It's terrible television.

    eh, it's no worse television than any other popular 90s drama

    it is absolute crap Intro to Politics though.

    I had an Intro to American Government class a long time ago where the teacher would show episodes in class.

    God that class sucked.

    You political junkies are monsters. The West Wing was great TV and the world is poorer with the series finished.
    FrenchCat2.jpg
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    the only modern president who worked congress was LBJ

    and that was via a degree of personal intimidation that would not fly today

    LBJ also had been working in Congress for twenty years. Obama was in Washington for about twenty seconds before he started running for president and has never enjoyed a super friendly Congress.

    LBJ also preceded BRAC, FOIA, COINTELPRO restrictions...

    I mean, seriously, most of what he did to cajole lawmakers would not simply be frowned upon by today's media, it would quite literally be illegal.
    tea-1.jpg
  • evilbobevilbob Registered User regular
    LBJ didn't have massive majorities

    Southern Democrats

    Hey baby, wanna give and LBJ to the massive majority in my southern...

    wait what?
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Sometimes I feel like The West Wing was the worst thing to ever happen to this country in the same way that I imagine lawyers and cops loath CSI.

    Do you have to hate everything I enjoy?

    I love the West Wing.

    I just don't like people who apply WW logic to the real world.

    I hate them both.

    The West Wing gives a decent approximation of the various de jure powers of political actors, but then gets how people actually behave completely wrong; it fucks up what the incentives are, the stuff that actually matters.

    It's terrible television.

    eh, it's no worse television than any other popular 90s drama

    it is absolute crap Intro to Politics though.

    I had an Intro to American Government class a long time ago where the teacher would show episodes in class.

    God that class sucked.

    You political junkies are monsters. The West Wing was great TV and the world is poorer with the series finished.

    I don't think anyone is saying it's bad TV

    it's just a bad representation of politics and too many people (even prominent people) seem to think the president can just walk over to congress and browbeat boehner as if boehner has any power

    The GOP is beholden to norquist and rove not their leadership
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Sometimes I feel like The West Wing was the worst thing to ever happen to this country in the same way that I imagine lawyers and cops loath CSI.

    Do you have to hate everything I enjoy?

    I love the West Wing.

    I just don't like people who apply WW logic to the real world.

    I hate them both.

    The West Wing gives a decent approximation of the various de jure powers of political actors, but then gets how people actually behave completely wrong; it fucks up what the incentives are, the stuff that actually matters.

    It's terrible television.

    eh, it's no worse television than any other popular 90s drama

    it is absolute crap Intro to Politics though.

    I had an Intro to American Government class a long time ago where the teacher would show episodes in class.

    God that class sucked.

    You political junkies are monsters. The West Wing was great TV and the world is poorer with the series finished.

    The United States of America is a poorer nation now that we're filled with people who believe that the president can stroll down Pennsylvania Avenue and force Congress to do as he wants.
    Lh96QHG.png
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary Your Dark Descent FriendRegistered User regular
    2ItqRJ7.jpgSteam/Origin/PSN: Corehealer / Core's Streamtastical Livestream (Streaming Wildstar Beta later this year).
  • HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    I'm getting sick of even sensible types on television sticking to their guns about both sides being the same re: partisanship

    Colbert's "see democrats believe whatever stupid shit they're told too"

    Yeah? Which party tells their constituents the other party is a socialist commie nazi who has grandma execution panels? Or that a gun registry is the path to taking their guns?

    People changing their opinions on Gitmo isn't entirely unreasonable given exactly how fucked up everything became in the economy after the initial poll, it wasn't exactly a priority, meanwhile republicans deciding against the more energy efficient lights if they say "save the environment" on them is just plain retard programming

    I am going to disagree slightly here; It is a known and consistent phenomenon that each congresscritter (incumbents obvi) enjoys high personal approval ratings, while Congress as a whole has less American regard than dog shit, regardless of party, current majorities, etc.
  • ronyaronya hmmm over there!Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    LBJ, being LBJ:

    johnson-treatment-8ee35a57bd6f096f888467bfb612ea1d39fa848d-s6-c10.jpg

    Personal space? What's that?
    ronya on
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    The appropriate level of cynicism is derived from House of Cards re: the political process even if it's still an inaccurate portrayal
    override367 on
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    Look at the defensive body language on that guy. Arms crossed, slight head tilt back, and weight shifting!
    3FMmC.jpg
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    I'm getting sick of even sensible types on television sticking to their guns about both sides being the same re: partisanship

    Colbert's "see democrats believe whatever stupid shit they're told too"

    Yeah? Which party tells their constituents the other party is a socialist commie nazi who has grandma execution panels? Or that a gun registry is the path to taking their guns?

    People changing their opinions on Gitmo isn't entirely unreasonable given exactly how fucked up everything became in the economy after the initial poll, it wasn't exactly a priority, meanwhile republicans deciding against the more energy efficient lights if they say "save the environment" on them is just plain retard programming

    I am going to disagree slightly here; It is a known and consistent phenomenon that each congresscritter (incumbents obvi) enjoys high personal approval ratings, while Congress as a whole has less American regard than dog shit, regardless of party, current majorities, etc.

    Yeah, but if democrats and republicans like their representatives equally while still hating congress the democrats are less stupid in that calculus

    because their opinions dont matter in congress
    override367 on
  • ronyaronya hmmm over there!Registered User regular
    that wasn't even a senator he was bullying, it seems, in that photo

    that was one of his own appointees!
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    the only modern president who worked congress was LBJ

    Given the correlation that his legislative success had with congressional majorities, I think there's a good reason to be extremely skeptical of that claim.

    If to "work congress" is to "enjoy massive majorities", then yes, he worked the hell out of congress.

    herding dixiecrats into line at the height of the CRM was no mean feat

    Herding dixiecrats into line to do what, exactly?

    Dixiecrats weren't fake Republicans.
    Loren Michael on
    2ezikn6.jpg
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    the only modern president who worked congress was LBJ

    Given the correlation that his legislative success had with congressional majorities, I think there's a good reason to be extremely skeptical of that claim.

    If to "work congress" is to "enjoy massive majorities", then yes, he worked the hell out of congress.

    herding dixiecrats into line at the height of the CRM was no mean feat

    Herding dixiecrats into line to do what, exactly?

    Dixiecrats weren't fake Republicans.

    They sure as hell weren't party line democrats
  • ronyaronya hmmm over there!Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    the only modern president who worked congress was LBJ

    Given the correlation that his legislative success had with congressional majorities, I think there's a good reason to be extremely skeptical of that claim.

    If to "work congress" is to "enjoy massive majorities", then yes, he worked the hell out of congress.

    herding dixiecrats into line at the height of the CRM was no mean feat

    Herding dixiecrats into line to do what, exactly?

    Dixiecrats weren't fake Republicans.

    support Great Society initiatives even if they benefit black people, for one thing

    remember that this lot were pulling support for the NLRA and such because Black People, as early as the 1930s
    ronya on
  • evilbobevilbob Registered User regular
    I'm a legit Republican.

    It means something different here though.
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Corehealer wrote: »

    It is hard to find good, comfortable fitting pants when you're swinging some pipe; let me tell you.
    tea-1.jpg
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    the only modern president who worked congress was LBJ

    Given the correlation that his legislative success had with congressional majorities, I think there's a good reason to be extremely skeptical of that claim.

    If to "work congress" is to "enjoy massive majorities", then yes, he worked the hell out of congress.

    herding dixiecrats into line at the height of the CRM was no mean feat

    Herding dixiecrats into line to do what, exactly?

    Dixiecrats weren't fake Republicans.

    Dixiecrats split from the party specifically because of the civil rights movement, anyway. So...
    Lh96QHG.png
  • HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    the only modern president who worked congress was LBJ

    and that was via a degree of personal intimidation that would not fly today

    LBJ also had been working in Congress for twenty years. Obama was in Washington for about twenty seconds before he started running for president and has never enjoyed a super friendly Congress.

    LBJ also preceded BRAC, FOIA, COINTELPRO restrictions...

    I mean, seriously, most of what he did to cajole lawmakers would not simply be frowned upon by today's media, it would quite literally be illegal.

    Yup. Trying to compare the environment surrounding LBJ and the environment surrounding Obama is ludicrous. Even the environment surrounding any President post-Nixon cannot be reasonably compared to LBJ's time--after Watergate, a lot of Presidential goodwill was completely demolished. The respect afforded the office was diminished and the media no longer extended good faith as a matter of course (ex. FDR's polio and JFK's affairs were an open but unreported secret)

    Suddenly Congressmen had a lot to gain by posturing conspicuously against the White House, and the media would gleefully encourage them

  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    the only modern president who worked congress was LBJ

    Given the correlation that his legislative success had with congressional majorities, I think there's a good reason to be extremely skeptical of that claim.

    If to "work congress" is to "enjoy massive majorities", then yes, he worked the hell out of congress.

    herding dixiecrats into line at the height of the CRM was no mean feat

    Herding dixiecrats into line to do what, exactly?

    Dixiecrats weren't fake Republicans.

    They sure as hell weren't party line democrats

    Sure. The point is that the parties at the time weren't analogous to the parties of today but with mixed up names. The ideological divides were a bit different. Dixiecrat =/= Republican
    2ezikn6.jpg
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    the only modern president who worked congress was LBJ

    Given the correlation that his legislative success had with congressional majorities, I think there's a good reason to be extremely skeptical of that claim.

    If to "work congress" is to "enjoy massive majorities", then yes, he worked the hell out of congress.

    herding dixiecrats into line at the height of the CRM was no mean feat

    Herding dixiecrats into line to do what, exactly?

    Dixiecrats weren't fake Republicans.

    support Great Society initiatives even if they benefit black people, for one thing

    remember that this lot were pulling support for the NRLA and such because Black People, as early as the 1930s

    A lot of Great Society initiatives were racist. Not nearly as racist as the New Deal, but still plenty racist enough.
    tea-1.jpg
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Sometimes I feel like The West Wing was the worst thing to ever happen to this country in the same way that I imagine lawyers and cops loath CSI.

    Do you have to hate everything I enjoy?

    I love the West Wing.

    I just don't like people who apply WW logic to the real world.

    I hate them both.

    The West Wing gives a decent approximation of the various de jure powers of political actors, but then gets how people actually behave completely wrong; it fucks up what the incentives are, the stuff that actually matters.

    It's terrible television.

    eh, it's no worse television than any other popular 90s drama

    it is absolute crap Intro to Politics though.

    I had an Intro to American Government class a long time ago where the teacher would show episodes in class.

    God that class sucked.

    You political junkies are monsters. The West Wing was great TV and the world is poorer with the series finished.

    The United States of America is a poorer nation now that we're filled with people who believe that the president can stroll down Pennsylvania Avenue and force Congress to do as he wants.

    President Josiah Bartlett was a bloodbender.
    2ezikn6.jpg
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary Your Dark Descent FriendRegistered User regular
    2ItqRJ7.jpgSteam/Origin/PSN: Corehealer / Core's Streamtastical Livestream (Streaming Wildstar Beta later this year).
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    Hell right now you can't even compare how the House runs to ten years ago!

    Boehner is a shitty speaker for a lot of reasons. He's a pretty piss poor excuse for a leader is one, the fact that his majority won their seats in spite of his existence is another.

    The fact that that majority then voted away the ability for the majority to trade projects in home districts for votes on legislation is another.
    Lh96QHG.png
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    the only modern president who worked congress was LBJ

    Given the correlation that his legislative success had with congressional majorities, I think there's a good reason to be extremely skeptical of that claim.

    If to "work congress" is to "enjoy massive majorities", then yes, he worked the hell out of congress.

    herding dixiecrats into line at the height of the CRM was no mean feat

    Herding dixiecrats into line to do what, exactly?

    Dixiecrats weren't fake Republicans.

    Dixiecrats split from the party specifically because of the civil rights movement, anyway. So...

    ...?
    2ezikn6.jpg
  • HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    the only modern president who worked congress was LBJ

    Given the correlation that his legislative success had with congressional majorities, I think there's a good reason to be extremely skeptical of that claim.

    If to "work congress" is to "enjoy massive majorities", then yes, he worked the hell out of congress.

    herding dixiecrats into line at the height of the CRM was no mean feat

    Herding dixiecrats into line to do what, exactly?

    Dixiecrats weren't fake Republicans.

    They sure as hell weren't party line democrats

    Sure. The point is that the parties at the time weren't analogous to the parties of today but with mixed up names. The ideological divides were a bit different. Dixiecrat =/= Republican

    I think we're aware of that. The real point is that a great Democratic Party majority in Congress did not guarantee LBJ the kind of party unity and easy bill-passin'-slip-n-slide that we assume majorities mean based on today's rigid practices. Just because Democrats controlled the House and headed every committee didn't mean LBJ didn't have to contend with a critical mass of hostile Senators and Reps, often from his own party
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Sometimes I feel like The West Wing was the worst thing to ever happen to this country in the same way that I imagine lawyers and cops loath CSI.

    Do you have to hate everything I enjoy?

    I love the West Wing.

    I just don't like people who apply WW logic to the real world.

    I hate them both.

    The West Wing gives a decent approximation of the various de jure powers of political actors, but then gets how people actually behave completely wrong; it fucks up what the incentives are, the stuff that actually matters.

    It's terrible television.

    eh, it's no worse television than any other popular 90s drama

    it is absolute crap Intro to Politics though.

    I had an Intro to American Government class a long time ago where the teacher would show episodes in class.

    God that class sucked.

    You political junkies are monsters. The West Wing was great TV and the world is poorer with the series finished.

    The United States of America is a poorer nation now that we're filled with people who believe that the president can stroll down Pennsylvania Avenue and force Congress to do as he wants.

    President Josiah Bartlett was a bloodbender.

    "In this building, when the President stands, nobody sits."
    *twitches fingers and makes hand gestures*
    FrenchCat2.jpg
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    the only modern president who worked congress was LBJ

    and that was via a degree of personal intimidation that would not fly today

    LBJ also had been working in Congress for twenty years. Obama was in Washington for about twenty seconds before he started running for president and has never enjoyed a super friendly Congress.

    LBJ also preceded BRAC, FOIA, COINTELPRO restrictions...

    I mean, seriously, most of what he did to cajole lawmakers would not simply be frowned upon by today's media, it would quite literally be illegal.

    Yup. Trying to compare the environment surrounding LBJ and the environment surrounding Obama is ludicrous. Even the environment surrounding any President post-Nixon cannot be reasonably compared to LBJ's time--after Watergate, a lot of Presidential goodwill was completely demolished. The respect afforded the office was diminished and the media no longer extended good faith as a matter of course (ex. FDR's polio and JFK's affairs were an open but unreported secret)

    Suddenly Congressmen had a lot to gain by posturing conspicuously against the White House, and the media would gleefully encourage them

    I wasn't even really thinking media goodwill so much as 'That's a nice Army base with 4,000 local jobs you got there. Be a shame if something were to happen to it.' Or, 'That's a lovely family you have there. Too bad the FBI file on you says that your black mistress lives all the way across town from them since I'm sure she'd love to go say hello' type things.
    tea-1.jpg
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    the only modern president who worked congress was LBJ

    Given the correlation that his legislative success had with congressional majorities, I think there's a good reason to be extremely skeptical of that claim.

    If to "work congress" is to "enjoy massive majorities", then yes, he worked the hell out of congress.

    herding dixiecrats into line at the height of the CRM was no mean feat

    Herding dixiecrats into line to do what, exactly?

    Dixiecrats weren't fake Republicans.

    Dixiecrats split from the party specifically because of the civil rights movement, anyway. So...

    ...?

    Dixiecrats are what turned the south from solidly Democratic to solidly Republican. They split off from the Democratic party over LBJ's passage of the civil rights act, among other things, and were then scooped up by Nixon and the southern strategy.

    So while LBJ was able to push some things through, he wasn't exactly the wizard of washington either.
    Lh96QHG.png
  • Ravenhpltc24Ravenhpltc24 Registered User regular
    tumblr_mmeq3nEnP51qm1x8bo1_500.png

    This thing is cool. It would also be cool (if not a bit lazy) cosplay.
    (V) ( ;,,; ) (V)
  • MimMim Registered User regular
    Man, I freaking want to know when Legend of Korra starts up again.
  • ronyaronya hmmm over there!Registered User regular
    there was a distinctive southern bloc much, much earlier than the CRM
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    Mim wrote: »
    Man, I freaking want to know when Legend of Korra starts up again.

    Mazzy said in a month.
    FrenchCat2.jpg
  • MimMim Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Mim wrote: »
    Man, I freaking want to know when Legend of Korra starts up again.

    Mazzy said in a month.

    REALLY?!
  • HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    the only modern president who worked congress was LBJ

    and that was via a degree of personal intimidation that would not fly today

    LBJ also had been working in Congress for twenty years. Obama was in Washington for about twenty seconds before he started running for president and has never enjoyed a super friendly Congress.

    LBJ also preceded BRAC, FOIA, COINTELPRO restrictions...

    I mean, seriously, most of what he did to cajole lawmakers would not simply be frowned upon by today's media, it would quite literally be illegal.

    Yup. Trying to compare the environment surrounding LBJ and the environment surrounding Obama is ludicrous. Even the environment surrounding any President post-Nixon cannot be reasonably compared to LBJ's time--after Watergate, a lot of Presidential goodwill was completely demolished. The respect afforded the office was diminished and the media no longer extended good faith as a matter of course (ex. FDR's polio and JFK's affairs were an open but unreported secret)

    Suddenly Congressmen had a lot to gain by posturing conspicuously against the White House, and the media would gleefully encourage them

    I wasn't even really thinking media goodwill so much as 'That's a nice Army base with 4,000 local jobs you got there. Be a shame if something were to happen to it.' Or, 'That's a lovely family you have there. Too bad the FBI file on you says that your black mistress lives all the way across town from them since I'm sure she'd love to go say hello' type things.

    hahaha yes of course, that too; I should have clarified that I meant it also had the effect of incentivizing Congressmen to imply massive top-down conspiracies and stoke suspicions of corruption against the Presidential office
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    there was a distinctive southern bloc much, much earlier than the CRM

    yes, somewhere around 1787 is when it popped up, I believe.

    But the sundering of the democratic south is directly related to Johnson's push for civil rights.
    Lh96QHG.png
  • Ravenhpltc24Ravenhpltc24 Registered User regular
    Mim wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Mim wrote: »
    Man, I freaking want to know when Legend of Korra starts up again.

    Mazzy said in a month.

    REALLY?!

    Lies. They said "this year." I would think late summer, maybe. We'd have known about it sooner if it was in a month.
    (V) ( ;,,; ) (V)
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    Mim wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Mim wrote: »
    Man, I freaking want to know when Legend of Korra starts up again.

    Mazzy said in a month.

    REALLY?!

    Wait ... wait ...
    http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/08/nickelodeon-talks-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-season-2-and-previews-the-legend-of-korra-book-2?abthid=5189a7195d906d413000002b

    MAZZY IS A DIRTY LIAR!
    FrenchCat2.jpg
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    I think I may have had too much chianti. Except that I refuse to believe such a thing as too much chianti exists.
    tea-1.jpg
This discussion has been closed.