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King of the [Chat]

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Posts

  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Corehealer wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Everyone back the torchbearer kickstarter now

    bleh, looking at it now and am very unimpressed. Would rather play 4th ed or just bust out the Rules Cyclopedia.

    Dumb

    It's a more advanced version of mouse guard

    Saying you would rather play 4th seems quite odd

    The game is meant to be a crawler, but its meant to be about the same difficult decision making that all other BW games are

    that's the point. When dungeon crawling I want interesting tactics and combat since that is the focus. Mousegaurd combat is a step up from some systems in how streamlined it is but it is basically taking the track of "we can't / wont make combat interesting in and of itself so we will make it less of a burden than most games". That's great in a setting where combat isn't the focus.

    But I'd rather have 4e and interesting tactics in a dungeon crawl.

    Hahahahahahaahahaha

    Okay

    I guess that's one way to look at it

    I mean, it's fundamentally wrong

    But you can have an opinion

    care to offer an actual argument or are you just gonna hipster it up as per usual?

    Sure

    Your criticism of the game shows a lack if understanding of the system. Combat, is not, as you said, more streamlined. Every action interacts with the other actions in its own way, which requires quite a bit of system mastery.

    So, to say you want tactics and dismiss this system as being base ignores the deep strategic game of scripting and predicting.

    Need more?

    Obviously I have not played this system but the very first thing they decided to show in their kickstarter video, and something which takes a good chunk of it, is combat. And it is really deeply lame. The players described some very basic actions on their part then a pile of dice was rolled vs another pile of dice from the GM. Boom, they rolled better (huzah for randomness over tactics). Then far too much narrative occurs where the players have no opportunity to act or interject when they should (why can't they do anything while all those people are being dragged off?).

    I was also basing my criticism off of mousegaurd which I do own. That did a great job of making combat take far less time (which is a good thing compared to games like D&D prior to 4th or GURPS or Pathfinder where it is basically the same idea - roll dice until HP = 0 - but takes far longer) because fighting things wasn't the focus of the game. Storytelling, interacting with NPCs (especially) and such were. Once the dice started rolling you just needed to resolve that quickly and get back to the "real game" for that system.

    But in a dungeon crawl setting what are you getting back to?

    Look at the skills and stats on that character sheet. Look at what they do in the video that the game makers decided to use to promote and show off their game. I do not see this as a setting or game style that it is at all well suited to the game mechanics they are using for it.

    Kickstarter video is lame, true

    Regarding skills, quite a bit is covered

    For the things that are not, you can make those up

    Your criticisms of fight! are still way the fuck off base

    To be fair, when considering investing money in something, one should not have to "make stuff up" as much as possible unless it's to generate hype, which this niche take on dungeon crawls does not do. The things that are not should be fleshed out more by the video and the Kickstarter so people know what it is they are putting their money into. Otherwise people like Riemann will dissect that shit to death.

    The thing is, the skills on a character sheet DO cover most situations in a dungeoncrawl setting

    He's making some pretty big generalizations based on some blatant misreadings

    look man, maybe when you are trying to promote something you are obviously absurdly emotionally invested in you shouldn't come blustering in to chat all full of piss and hellfire. Calm the fuck down and try to actually discuss this instead of insulting me and acting like an asshole.

    I can't be misreading this game as none of us have the rulebook. And I seriously doubt I am misreading Mousegaurd.

    I told everyone to back it

    You were the one who insulted me first, so you can kindly fuck off if you think I came in here full of whatever

    As to misreading, you absolutely are

    Conflict is the crux if all these games

    Saying that combat is meant to be quick is a misunderstanding

    I'll gladly go grab my MG book to quote if you want, or you can go actually read the book

    revisionist history is silly when it's 5 minutes after the fact and the truth is actually recorded.
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Everyone back the torchbearer kickstarter now

    bleh, looking at it now and am very unimpressed. Would rather play 4th ed or just bust out the Rules Cyclopedia.

    Dumb

    It's a more advanced version of mouse guard

    Saying you would rather play 4th seems quite odd

    The game is meant to be a crawler, but its meant to be about the same difficult decision making that all other BW games are

    edit: also at this point I am not willing to entertain the notion that you are even remotely capable of arguing about this in good faith. I have no desire to continue interacting with you when you are acting like this.

    Get your mousegaurd books if that will calm you down a bit but I reject your attempts at argument thus far.
    RiemannLives on
    What you think "makes sense" has nothing to do with reality. It just has to do with your life experience. And your life experience may only be a small smidgen of reality. Possibly even a distorted account of reality at that. So what this means is that, beginning in the 20th century as our means of decoding nature became more and more powerful, we started realizing our common sense is no longer a tool to pass judgment on whether or not a scientific theory is correct. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary Your Dark Descent FriendRegistered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    Ludious wrote: »
    are we really fighting over a pnp rulebook

    i don't even know what pnp is

    are we really fighting over something that i don't know what you mean when you say are we really fighting over the thing

    pnp = Pen and Paper = the old ways of nerddom and high fantasy roleplaying = take my +1 mace and hit horrid demons with it.
    2ItqRJ7.jpgSteam/Origin/PSN: Corehealer / Core's Streamtastical Livestream (Streaming Wildstar Beta later this year).
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary Your Dark Descent FriendRegistered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    hey

    hello
    2ItqRJ7.jpgSteam/Origin/PSN: Corehealer / Core's Streamtastical Livestream (Streaming Wildstar Beta later this year).
  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    Corehealer wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Ludious wrote: »
    are we really fighting over a pnp rulebook

    i don't even know what pnp is

    are we really fighting over something that i don't know what you mean when you say are we really fighting over the thing

    pnp = Pen and Paper = the old ways of nerddom and high fantasy roleplaying = take my +1 mace and hit horrid demons with it.

    ah i thought it was another acronym like player vs player or player vs environment
  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    actually that's not true

    i think i have heard pnp w.r.t. networking technology

    Plug n play, yeah.

    Pnp here is pen n paper

  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    geth what do you want with me

    i'm an innocent man just sitting here reading a thing about set theory

    fuck my butt, bro
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Registered User regular
    So I'm pondering this and I'm actually kinda fascinated by the X-Wing/TIE Fighter design philosophy difference. The X-Wing is a sturdier design with massive range capability compared to the TIE Fighter. I assume the hyperdrive and shield units have to be pretty pricey. Which means the insurgency is buying the expensive equipment and the counter-insurgency forces are getting the cheaper, more numerous fighter.
    There's no living with a killing. There's no goin' back from one. Right or wrong, it's a brand... a brand sticks. There's no goin' back. Now you run on home to your mother and tell her... tell her everything's alright. And there aren't any more guns in the valley.
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Corehealer wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    hey

    hello

    what's up
    xlh6c3.png
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary Your Dark Descent FriendRegistered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    geth what do you want with me

    i'm an innocent man just sitting here reading a thing about set theory

    fuck my butt, bro

    I dunno chu, I think Geth's vibrate settings are set to lethal levels. You may end up liquefied.
    2ItqRJ7.jpgSteam/Origin/PSN: Corehealer / Core's Streamtastical Livestream (Streaming Wildstar Beta later this year).
  • descdesc the '87 stick-up kids Registered User regular
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    So I'm pondering this and I'm actually kinda fascinated by the X-Wing/TIE Fighter design philosophy difference. The X-Wing is a sturdier design with massive range capability compared to the TIE Fighter. I assume the hyperdrive and shield units have to be pretty pricey. Which means the insurgency is buying the expensive equipment and the counter-insurgency forces are getting the cheaper, more numerous fighter.

    Indeed. I vaguely feel like the x-wing was kind of an older tried and tested design in the story? The TIE was this new cheap little kamikaze thing with fresher technology.
  • LudiousLudious Registered User regular
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    So I'm pondering this and I'm actually kinda fascinated by the X-Wing/TIE Fighter design philosophy difference. The X-Wing is a sturdier design with massive range capability compared to the TIE Fighter. I assume the hyperdrive and shield units have to be pretty pricey. Which means the insurgency is buying the expensive equipment and the counter-insurgency forces are getting the cheaper, more numerous fighter.

    i told you I am sick of this mac vs pc shit

    Google Talk: ludious83 My Blog: The Caustic Geek
  • ShivahnShivahn Registered User regular
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    So I'm pondering this and I'm actually kinda fascinated by the X-Wing/TIE Fighter design philosophy difference. The X-Wing is a sturdier design with massive range capability compared to the TIE Fighter. I assume the hyperdrive and shield units have to be pretty pricey. Which means the insurgency is buying the expensive equipment and the counter-insurgency forces are getting the cheaper, more numerous fighter.

    I seem to recall that to the rebels, the pilots were kind of irreplaceable. Apparently it was harder to acquire insurgents than equipment.
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary Your Dark Descent FriendRegistered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Corehealer wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    hey

    hello

    what's up

    neckbeards fighting over dungeon crawls

    desc is killing WW1 germans in a soptwith camel with some chat named pilot NPCs

    chu wants to have sex with Geth

    the usual
    2ItqRJ7.jpgSteam/Origin/PSN: Corehealer / Core's Streamtastical Livestream (Streaming Wildstar Beta later this year).
  • OrganichuOrganichu Registered User regular
    i don't have to put up with geth's abuse

    i'm sleeping at my sister's tonight
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary Your Dark Descent FriendRegistered User regular
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    So I'm pondering this and I'm actually kinda fascinated by the X-Wing/TIE Fighter design philosophy difference. The X-Wing is a sturdier design with massive range capability compared to the TIE Fighter. I assume the hyperdrive and shield units have to be pretty pricey. Which means the insurgency is buying the expensive equipment and the counter-insurgency forces are getting the cheaper, more numerous fighter.

    I seem to recall that to the rebels, the pilots were kind of irreplaceable. Apparently it was harder to acquire insurgents than equipment.

    Much like in the real world, finding someone crazy enough to fly in one of those things and actually have them live for more then a few weeks in that capacity is pretty hard.
    2ItqRJ7.jpgSteam/Origin/PSN: Corehealer / Core's Streamtastical Livestream (Streaming Wildstar Beta later this year).
  • HamurabiHamurabi Registered User regular
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    Ludious wrote: »
    I wonder when they're gonna let Julia Roberts and Sarah Jessica Parker retire to a nice petting zoo in Albuquerque where they can give rides to 8 year olds

    Sarah Jessica Parker walks into a bar. The bartender says, "Why the long face?"

    557442_4698085014995_595286723_n.jpg

    What do you call a frowning Pockistanni?

    Hamurabi!

    Edit: phone posting sucks.

    Blatant, naked Racism.
    network_sig2.png
  • MimMim Registered User regular
    Mim wrote: »
    i do not know how white girls just let their hair air dry. My hair is drippin' all over the place.

    I hope my fro looks better in the morning...
    p sure most white girls don't, actually

    All of the ones I know let their hair air dry
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    desc wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    So I'm pondering this and I'm actually kinda fascinated by the X-Wing/TIE Fighter design philosophy difference. The X-Wing is a sturdier design with massive range capability compared to the TIE Fighter. I assume the hyperdrive and shield units have to be pretty pricey. Which means the insurgency is buying the expensive equipment and the counter-insurgency forces are getting the cheaper, more numerous fighter.

    Indeed. I vaguely feel like the x-wing was kind of an older tried and tested design in the story? The TIE was this new cheap little kamikaze thing with fresher technology.

    in the games I've played, the Xwing was developed by the empire (who had the resources to do so) and its schematics and prototypes were stolen by the rebellion.

    I would guess with at least the tacit acceptance, if not outright support, of the emperor. Because, prior to the rebels getting insanely lucky against the death star (a weapon that is useless against a rebellion but perfect for keeping down ambitious admirals with their own fleets), the thing the emperor needed most was a public menace and scapegoat.
    What you think "makes sense" has nothing to do with reality. It just has to do with your life experience. And your life experience may only be a small smidgen of reality. Possibly even a distorted account of reality at that. So what this means is that, beginning in the 20th century as our means of decoding nature became more and more powerful, we started realizing our common sense is no longer a tool to pass judgment on whether or not a scientific theory is correct. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
  • descdesc the '87 stick-up kids Registered User regular
    Ludious wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    So I'm pondering this and I'm actually kinda fascinated by the X-Wing/TIE Fighter design philosophy difference. The X-Wing is a sturdier design with massive range capability compared to the TIE Fighter. I assume the hyperdrive and shield units have to be pretty pricey. Which means the insurgency is buying the expensive equipment and the counter-insurgency forces are getting the cheaper, more numerous fighter.

    i told you I am sick of this mac vs pc shit

    lude

    r2 units just work
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary Your Dark Descent FriendRegistered User regular
    Mim wrote: »
    Mim wrote: »
    i do not know how white girls just let their hair air dry. My hair is drippin' all over the place.

    I hope my fro looks better in the morning...
    p sure most white girls don't, actually

    All of the ones I know let their hair air dry

    My sister uses a towel. I am glad when I see how long it takes that I don't have that issue.
    2ItqRJ7.jpgSteam/Origin/PSN: Corehealer / Core's Streamtastical Livestream (Streaming Wildstar Beta later this year).
  • MazzyxMazzyx Changing the World Order. Registered User regular
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    So I'm pondering this and I'm actually kinda fascinated by the X-Wing/TIE Fighter design philosophy difference. The X-Wing is a sturdier design with massive range capability compared to the TIE Fighter. I assume the hyperdrive and shield units have to be pretty pricey. Which means the insurgency is buying the expensive equipment and the counter-insurgency forces are getting the cheaper, more numerous fighter.

    In many ways it matched the tactical philosophy of the two sides. The rebels were focused on saving lives and small tactical strikes. The empire was focused on overwhelming force and victory at all cost. It it cost fleets to take a single inch so be it. Te rebel ships had to be able to run, imperial fleets had no such need.
    falasig.png
  • ShivahnShivahn Registered User regular
    Mim wrote: »
    Mim wrote: »
    i do not know how white girls just let their hair air dry. My hair is drippin' all over the place.

    I hope my fro looks better in the morning...
    p sure most white girls don't, actually

    All of the ones I know let their hair air dry

    Yo.
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    also, with regards to the rebel vs imperial ships, all the rebel ships are more self-sufficient and hyperdrive equipped so they can operate far from resupply.

    Which is what you would need for hit and run terrorism.
    What you think "makes sense" has nothing to do with reality. It just has to do with your life experience. And your life experience may only be a small smidgen of reality. Possibly even a distorted account of reality at that. So what this means is that, beginning in the 20th century as our means of decoding nature became more and more powerful, we started realizing our common sense is no longer a tool to pass judgment on whether or not a scientific theory is correct. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    Night, [chat] another long drive tomorrow
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary Your Dark Descent FriendRegistered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    So I'm pondering this and I'm actually kinda fascinated by the X-Wing/TIE Fighter design philosophy difference. The X-Wing is a sturdier design with massive range capability compared to the TIE Fighter. I assume the hyperdrive and shield units have to be pretty pricey. Which means the insurgency is buying the expensive equipment and the counter-insurgency forces are getting the cheaper, more numerous fighter.

    In many ways it matched the tactical philosophy of the two sides. The rebels were focused on saving lives and small tactical strikes. The empire was focused on overwhelming force and victory at all cost. It it cost fleets to take a single inch so be it. Te rebel ships had to be able to run, imperial fleets had no such need.

    Who needs shields and training on how to aim when you can just throw ships at it?
    2ItqRJ7.jpgSteam/Origin/PSN: Corehealer / Core's Streamtastical Livestream (Streaming Wildstar Beta later this year).
  • LudiousLudious Registered User regular
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    Hamurabi wrote: »
    Ludious wrote: »
    I wonder when they're gonna let Julia Roberts and Sarah Jessica Parker retire to a nice petting zoo in Albuquerque where they can give rides to 8 year olds

    Sarah Jessica Parker walks into a bar. The bartender says, "Why the long face?"

    557442_4698085014995_595286723_n.jpg

    What do you call a frowning Pockistanni?

    Hamurabi!

    Edit: phone posting sucks.

    Blatant, naked Racism.

    whoa whoa whoa, calm down, don't explode on us
    Google Talk: ludious83 My Blog: The Caustic Geek
  • descdesc the '87 stick-up kids Registered User regular
    HEY

    I didn't want to only buy the british campaign and went back to buy all campaigns and I think it ditched my progress. lame.

    Okay, nonetheless I love this game and am buying the all campaign pack bundle and and debating the all skins bundle.

    $9 for a good Sid Meier turn based game is not unreasonable.
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Registered User regular
    desc wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    So I'm pondering this and I'm actually kinda fascinated by the X-Wing/TIE Fighter design philosophy difference. The X-Wing is a sturdier design with massive range capability compared to the TIE Fighter. I assume the hyperdrive and shield units have to be pretty pricey. Which means the insurgency is buying the expensive equipment and the counter-insurgency forces are getting the cheaper, more numerous fighter.

    Indeed. I vaguely feel like the x-wing was kind of an older tried and tested design in the story? The TIE was this new cheap little kamikaze thing with fresher technology.

    Naw, the X-Wing is an experimental design the rebel's aquired/stole. The TIE is supposedly slightly older but they are basically the same generation of fighter.
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Thomamelas wrote: »
    So I'm pondering this and I'm actually kinda fascinated by the X-Wing/TIE Fighter design philosophy difference. The X-Wing is a sturdier design with massive range capability compared to the TIE Fighter. I assume the hyperdrive and shield units have to be pretty pricey. Which means the insurgency is buying the expensive equipment and the counter-insurgency forces are getting the cheaper, more numerous fighter.

    I seem to recall that to the rebels, the pilots were kind of irreplaceable. Apparently it was harder to acquire insurgents than equipment.

    Well the hyperdrive gives them some really interesting flexibility from a strategic level. You can't insert a couple of TIE fighters into an area. They require a massive support logistical structure to be local. So moving a few is a big deal. Whereas the Rebellion can engage in smaller hit and fade attacks. It offers them a lot more flexibility which you'd expect with the more expensive chassis. Just a kind of flip from the usual.
    There's no living with a killing. There's no goin' back from one. Right or wrong, it's a brand... a brand sticks. There's no goin' back. Now you run on home to your mother and tell her... tell her everything's alright. And there aren't any more guns in the valley.
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    also, with regards to the rebel vs imperial ships, all the rebel ships are more self-sufficient and hyperdrive equipped so they can operate far from resupply.

    Which is what you would need for hit and run terrorism.

    the empire has superior pilots, inferior ships.
    xlh6c3.png
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Registered User regular
    Corehealer wrote: »
    Mim wrote: »
    Mim wrote: »
    i do not know how white girls just let their hair air dry. My hair is drippin' all over the place.

    I hope my fro looks better in the morning...
    p sure most white girls don't, actually

    All of the ones I know let their hair air dry

    My sister uses a towel. I am glad when I see how long it takes that I don't have that issue.

    Mine do too. Ah, the benefits of a shaved head...
  • MimMim Registered User regular
    Well, initially yes a towel, but then it just hangs to dry.

    I used a towel getting out of the shower, but my hair is still all "drip, drip, drip mother fucker"
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Good night out.

    Got to know mrs pink-blue-hair-and-unbelievably-hot better. Which was fun.

    Another girl started toying with my hair. As you do. It is good hair.

    Also, I kinda hate the girl's cousin, since her drunk ass is the reason I'm sleeping at home tonight.

    also also, stuff. Fuck it imma sleep.
    xlh6c3.png
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary Your Dark Descent FriendRegistered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    also, with regards to the rebel vs imperial ships, all the rebel ships are more self-sufficient and hyperdrive equipped so they can operate far from resupply.

    Which is what you would need for hit and run terrorism.

    the empire has superior pilots, inferior ships.

    Superior? I didn't notice. Typically when a rebel died it was because they were a red shirt, not because the Empire had started upping the training budget. Hence the famous trench scene.

    But then a lot of things under the hood there were simplified for the narrative, so it was fine regardless.
    2ItqRJ7.jpgSteam/Origin/PSN: Corehealer / Core's Streamtastical Livestream (Streaming Wildstar Beta later this year).
  • ShivahnShivahn Registered User regular
    I just dry my hair extensively and then wait for a while. Showering well before I have to do stuff helps.
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    I just finished Theme Hospital on hard mode.

    Clearly I am da bes 8-)
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary Your Dark Descent FriendRegistered User regular
    Mim wrote: »
    Well, initially yes a towel, but then it just hangs to dry.

    I used a towel getting out of the shower, but my hair is still all "drip, drip, drip mother fucker"

    No, she keeps the towel in for a long time, is what I'm saying. Then hair dries the remainder, if there is any.
    2ItqRJ7.jpgSteam/Origin/PSN: Corehealer / Core's Streamtastical Livestream (Streaming Wildstar Beta later this year).
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary Your Dark Descent FriendRegistered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Good night out.

    Got to know mrs pink-blue-hair-and-unbelievably-hot better. Which was fun.

    Another girl started toying with my hair. As you do. It is good hair.

    Also, I kinda hate the girl's cousin, since her drunk ass is the reason I'm sleeping at home tonight.

    also also, stuff. Fuck it imma sleep.

    good night
    2ItqRJ7.jpgSteam/Origin/PSN: Corehealer / Core's Streamtastical Livestream (Streaming Wildstar Beta later this year).
  • ThomamelasThomamelas Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    also, with regards to the rebel vs imperial ships, all the rebel ships are more self-sufficient and hyperdrive equipped so they can operate far from resupply.

    Which is what you would need for hit and run terrorism.

    the empire has superior pilots, inferior ships.

    Not quite. The base TIE was as fast as an X-Wing but significantly more maneuverable. Shielding is nice, keeping your opponent from being able to line up a shot is better. And the TIE/in was faster and even more maneuverable with heavier firepower.
    There's no living with a killing. There's no goin' back from one. Right or wrong, it's a brand... a brand sticks. There's no goin' back. Now you run on home to your mother and tell her... tell her everything's alright. And there aren't any more guns in the valley.
  • LudiousLudious Registered User regular
    DripDripDrip.gif
    Google Talk: ludious83 My Blog: The Caustic Geek
  • VanguardVanguard for the Night is Dark and Full of Big Areolas Registered User regular
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Corehealer wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Everyone back the torchbearer kickstarter now

    bleh, looking at it now and am very unimpressed. Would rather play 4th ed or just bust out the Rules Cyclopedia.

    Dumb

    It's a more advanced version of mouse guard

    Saying you would rather play 4th seems quite odd

    The game is meant to be a crawler, but its meant to be about the same difficult decision making that all other BW games are

    that's the point. When dungeon crawling I want interesting tactics and combat since that is the focus. Mousegaurd combat is a step up from some systems in how streamlined it is but it is basically taking the track of "we can't / wont make combat interesting in and of itself so we will make it less of a burden than most games". That's great in a setting where combat isn't the focus.

    But I'd rather have 4e and interesting tactics in a dungeon crawl.

    Hahahahahahaahahaha

    Okay

    I guess that's one way to look at it

    I mean, it's fundamentally wrong

    But you can have an opinion

    care to offer an actual argument or are you just gonna hipster it up as per usual?

    Sure

    Your criticism of the game shows a lack if understanding of the system. Combat, is not, as you said, more streamlined. Every action interacts with the other actions in its own way, which requires quite a bit of system mastery.

    So, to say you want tactics and dismiss this system as being base ignores the deep strategic game of scripting and predicting.

    Need more?

    Obviously I have not played this system but the very first thing they decided to show in their kickstarter video, and something which takes a good chunk of it, is combat. And it is really deeply lame. The players described some very basic actions on their part then a pile of dice was rolled vs another pile of dice from the GM. Boom, they rolled better (huzah for randomness over tactics). Then far too much narrative occurs where the players have no opportunity to act or interject when they should (why can't they do anything while all those people are being dragged off?).

    I was also basing my criticism off of mousegaurd which I do own. That did a great job of making combat take far less time (which is a good thing compared to games like D&D prior to 4th or GURPS or Pathfinder where it is basically the same idea - roll dice until HP = 0 - but takes far longer) because fighting things wasn't the focus of the game. Storytelling, interacting with NPCs (especially) and such were. Once the dice started rolling you just needed to resolve that quickly and get back to the "real game" for that system.

    But in a dungeon crawl setting what are you getting back to?

    Look at the skills and stats on that character sheet. Look at what they do in the video that the game makers decided to use to promote and show off their game. I do not see this as a setting or game style that it is at all well suited to the game mechanics they are using for it.

    Kickstarter video is lame, true

    Regarding skills, quite a bit is covered

    For the things that are not, you can make those up

    Your criticisms of fight! are still way the fuck off base

    To be fair, when considering investing money in something, one should not have to "make stuff up" as much as possible unless it's to generate hype, which this niche take on dungeon crawls does not do. The things that are not should be fleshed out more by the video and the Kickstarter so people know what it is they are putting their money into. Otherwise people like Riemann will dissect that shit to death.

    The thing is, the skills on a character sheet DO cover most situations in a dungeoncrawl setting

    He's making some pretty big generalizations based on some blatant misreadings

    look man, maybe when you are trying to promote something you are obviously absurdly emotionally invested in you shouldn't come blustering in to chat all full of piss and hellfire. Calm the fuck down and try to actually discuss this instead of insulting me and acting like an asshole.

    I can't be misreading this game as none of us have the rulebook. And I seriously doubt I am misreading Mousegaurd.

    I told everyone to back it

    You were the one who insulted me first, so you can kindly fuck off if you think I came in here full of whatever

    As to misreading, you absolutely are

    Conflict is the crux if all these games

    Saying that combat is meant to be quick is a misunderstanding

    I'll gladly go grab my MG book to quote if you want, or you can go actually read the book

    revisionist history is silly when it's 5 minutes after the fact and the truth is actually recorded.
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Everyone back the torchbearer kickstarter now

    bleh, looking at it now and am very unimpressed. Would rather play 4th ed or just bust out the Rules Cyclopedia.

    Dumb

    It's a more advanced version of mouse guard

    Saying you would rather play 4th seems quite odd

    The game is meant to be a crawler, but its meant to be about the same difficult decision making that all other BW games are

    edit: also at this point I am not willing to entertain the notion that you are even remotely capable of arguing about this in good faith. I have no desire to continue interacting with you when you are acting like this.

    Get your mousegaurd books if that will calm you down a bit but I reject your attempts at argument thus far.

    I just said dumb, you were the one who made an attack against my character first. Anyway,

    "Sometimes a moment is so important we need to to stop and focus on it: intense fight scenes in which we follow every sword stroke, heated arguments in which the fur really flies or breakneck chases that leave us dizzy and breathless"

    "A conflict scene needs active opponents on at least two sides. Each side must want something, they have to have an immediate goal."

    "Conflicts are a bit more complicated than testing to overcome obstacles. In a conflict, we make many tests, but how we make them is different. In order to keep the game interesting, each side privately chooses three actions."

    (This last part is particularly relevant.)

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