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Posts

  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    SKFM annoys me the most on this board.

    hes an economic elite who believes property rights trump human rights

    you're a social elite who believes birth rights trump human rights

    the two of you would make a great sitcom together

    I wouldn't call him "elite" in any sense of the word. I'd just call him rich and thats it. To believe that someone is elite needs to have something else. Rich people cannot be classed alongside the dukes and counts of Europe for example.

    true dat

    rich people have power and influence

    Only in America, I think, they do. Elsewhere in the world the forms of elitism has continued, if hidden behind the veil of equality, unchecked and still continues to do so. Unless of course scandals break out which is then somewhat exposed.

    Only in America.

    And Britain and Europe and China and Australia and the Middle East and Russia and Canada and and and

    Completely disagree about the Middle East where Royalty still shines true and bright and has continued on.

    Aw, I've missed you.

    If you have proof, I'd love to see it.

    Proof of what? Rich people having power all across the world and monarchies being increasingly meaningless?

    May I present to you The World As It Was: May 16 2013.

    I can think of like, Jordan and Saudi Arabia as I guess technically being accurate for your view, but honestly your point is wrong.

    The monied have far more power and influence than any prancing duke might play to.

    I think your mistaking money = power which then becomes money = elitism. Which is wrong.

    Money never equals to elitism, at least the non-American sense of the word, because it isn't about how much you have its about who you are. A peasant cow herder can win the lottery and become a millionare but that will never remove the fact that he and his descendents are nothing but cow herders. Money might allow you to buy things but it will never remove who you are.

    The example of Reza Shah and Mohammad Reza Shah is clear cut in this case. If you didn't know Reza Shah was nothing but a soldiers who aspired to be a Shah. He was entirely not from a bloodline that came from kings and there is currently, at least to my current knowledge, a search going on based on a small factoid that the Pahlavi name that he adopted was bought from someone who was an actual Pahlavi.

    In the Middle East the monied are the true elites and there is no others who can compete with them within their domains, geo-political issues aside, thus people like the Imam of Yemen, the Saudi King or even the Jordan King are the true elites. Not only in the Middle east but you can see it in Morocco and Brunei where the Sultans are one of the most power and true elites in the world.

    How are you defining "elite" here? Are you saying they are inherently superior to other people of lower birth? Or is it something else, like they receive education, make connections etc that give them more than others get?
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    MadCaddy wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    the thing about population issues in growth is that it is completely dominated by industrial takeoff. as long you have some surplus to divert to takeoff - and, in the modern world, you can always borrow this surplus from a country that has already taken off - population has little obvious relation how well you can vault into growth.

    We are drowning in so many possible explanations where population increases takeoff growth through the availability of local markets for industrially-produced consumer goods; certainly the raw regressions tell us nothing.

    it is true that as long growth is principally agricultural, population determines growth. But if you're stuck in this trap, you're screwed already anyway. There are no wealthy countries whose economic output is predominantly agricultural. Even if you have very low population per arable area.

    I watched the vice on Friday that spoke about how China's current Finance ministry is propagating a real estate bubble, and it just kept showing on the vacant McMansions in the ghost cities. Chinas prospects really aren't looking to hot with their current leadership, hopefully Bo has an ace up his sleeve for their sake.

    strong similarities to the 1997 asian financial crisis

    and it should be noted that whilst it was severe, the 97 crisis had essentially no impact on long-term growth

    Apparently China creates construction projects that never sell and adds them into its GDP, and this (according to VICE, so its probably exaggerated a lil bit) to the tune of 5 trillion dollars over the last 30 years

    I don't think it's quite so dire but China will be in for some turmoil if they hit a recession

    it turns out that it's actually rather hard to pour completely useless concrete; malinvestment is not as high as the Austrians would prefer. the world is more Keynesian: even if you added capital really, really badly, the amount of damage to wealth this does is second-order to first-order concerns like "how much capital do you have, and how low is your unemployment"

    I agree, and in the present term this is a huge boon

    The problem this is all a hugely inefficient use of resources and they can't keep up this pace forever, eventually it's going to be need to be replaced by some sustainable economic activity or they're going to have a huge problem

    it is sustainable

    they have a ton of people, who are not in cities, who want to be in cities

    you really think they can have a 10% growth in construction (off the top of my head) every single year forever? Construction can certainly be a big part of their GDP forever, there's no question, it's the rate of growth and percentage of GDP that trouble me

    by this definition of sustainable, no country is sustainable. look at every western country's burst of growth in healthcare/education.

    Construction is like 50% of their GDP

    You're the economics expert and if you don't see that as problematic I'll defer to you, but it kind of worries me (especially when much of it is financed by borrowing from their middle class)

    Edit: And I sure as hell see America's healthcare spending and increase as problematic and a recession in the making
    override367 on
  • skippydumptruckskippydumptruck FAK U HODGEHEG Registered User regular
    Irond Will wrote: »
    chat all walking down the street

    some wild-haired guy, reeking of BO and moonshine, comes up and starts yelling about timecube

    chat stops to have a 30 minute argument

    look man

    without the fear that you might get stabbed by a screwdriver

    there's nothing stopping you from really engaging with crazy

    man will this new computer is so fast at everything
  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    This is why I read/watch LPs. This image has brightened my life.

    12-screenshots1_(Time_0_01_11;01).png

    He's an agent. And agent of justice! Also Native American.
    _J_ wrote:
    If we only allowed pedophiles to be parents, then we would never have to worry about children being left alone, unwatched.
    XBL: Fanatical One AIM: itskagera
  • Ravenhpltc24Ravenhpltc24 Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Somehow I found the part of youtube with all the really disturbing driving safety ads. Oh my God even 30 seconds of one brings me to tears.

    DRIVE SAFE EVERYONE.
    Ravenhpltc24 on
    (V) ( ;,,; ) (V)
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons LondresRegistered User regular
    Prince Harry was at Arlington Cemetary last Friday. I pass by there every day on my commute, if I hadn't been in New York I might've bumped into him. Good thing I didn't, I'm a Son of the American Revolution and it's about time the US goes for round three with our old nemesis the British monarchy.

    I told a Brit au pair friend of mine that he was there, and she hopped on the train but he left before she got there.

    Look the sooner you rebels apologise to Queeney and her family, the sooner you will get to stand bravely in the rain waving a little Crown embossed US flag as a royal limousine splashes water all over your best suit
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • Irond WillIrond Will Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    Casual wrote: »
    SKFM annoys me the most on this board.

    hes an economic elite who believes property rights trump human rights

    you're a social elite who believes birth rights trump human rights

    the two of you would make a great sitcom together

    I wouldn't call him "elite" in any sense of the word. I'd just call him rich and thats it. To believe that someone is elite needs to have something else. Rich people cannot be classed alongside the dukes and counts of Europe for example.

    true dat

    rich people have power and influence

    Only in America, I think, they do. Elsewhere in the world the forms of elitism has continued, if hidden behind the veil of equality, unchecked and still continues to do so. Unless of course scandals break out which is then somewhat exposed.

    Only in America.

    And Britain and Europe and China and Australia and the Middle East and Russia and Canada and and and

    Completely disagree about the Middle East where Royalty still shines true and bright and has continued on.

    Aw, I've missed you.

    If you have proof, I'd love to see it.

    Proof of what? Rich people having power all across the world and monarchies being increasingly meaningless?

    May I present to you The World As It Was: May 16 2013.

    I can think of like, Jordan and Saudi Arabia as I guess technically being accurate for your view, but honestly your point is wrong.

    The monied have far more power and influence than any prancing duke might play to.

    I think your mistaking money = power which then becomes money = elitism. Which is wrong.

    Money never equals to elitism, at least the non-American sense of the word, because it isn't about how much you have its about who you are. A peasant cow herder can win the lottery and become a millionare but that will never remove the fact that he and his descendents are nothing but cow herders. Money might allow you to buy things but it will never remove who you are.

    The example of Reza Shah and Mohammad Reza Shah is clear cut in this case. If you didn't know Reza Shah was nothing but a soldiers who aspired to be a Shah. He was entirely not from a bloodline that came from kings and there is currently, at least to my current knowledge, a search going on based on a small factoid that the Pahlavi name that he adopted was bought from someone who was an actual Pahlavi.

    In the Middle East the monied are the true elites and there is no others who can compete with them within their domains, geo-political issues aside, thus people like the Imam of Yemen, the Saudi King or even the Jordan King are the true elites. Not only in the Middle east but you can see it in Morocco and Brunei where the Sultans are one of the most power and true elites in the world.

    hilarious
  • GooeyGooey Registered User regular
    chat all walking down the street

    some wild-haired guy, reeking of BO and moonshine, comes up and starts yelling about timecube

    chat stops to have a 30 minute argument

    geth roll 1d1+3 for simultaneous time corners
    919UOwT.png
  • MadCaddyMadCaddy Riksadvokate Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    SKFM annoys me the most on this board.

    hes an economic elite who believes property rights trump human rights

    you're a social elite who believes birth rights trump human rights

    the two of you would make a great sitcom together

    I wouldn't call him "elite" in any sense of the word. I'd just call him rich and thats it. To believe that someone is elite needs to have something else. Rich people cannot be classed alongside the dukes and counts of Europe for example.

    true dat

    rich people have power and influence

    Only in America, I think, they do. Elsewhere in the world the forms of elitism has continued, if hidden behind the veil of equality, unchecked and still continues to do so. Unless of course scandals break out which is then somewhat exposed.

    Only in America.

    And Britain and Europe and China and Australia and the Middle East and Russia and Canada and and and

    Completely disagree about the Middle East where Royalty still shines true and bright and has continued on.

    Aw, I've missed you.

    If you have proof, I'd love to see it.

    Correct me if I'm completely off base, but in the middle eastern countries where the monarchy has the most power, aren't the monarchy coincidentally among the richest individuals as well?

    Gotta love King Jordan of Star Trek, and his self financed and licensed Star Trek theme park scheduled to open 2015!
    League of Legends: SorryNotRly Steam: MMForYourHealth Hero Academy: MadCaddy
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    actually, the middle east is interesting and I don't really know how shit works there

    I mean, I know they've got old-school absolute monarchies, but the royals don't count as "the elite"

    they rule the elite.

    But how do the top positions in business, government and society in those countries work?

    They are occupied by the extended family of the grand poobah.

    well there you have it. An "elite" that does not mean "rich". Since just being rich isn't enough to get to the top. It means part of some exclusive elitist group. Incredibly exclusive in this case.

    The Elite are The Rich.

    If not for delicious oil money they would not be The Elite.

    I guess he is technically correct, but mostly full of shit?

    *shrug*

    No, without delicious oil money, they'd be The Elite, just not as rich. They're the elite of that country, they're clearly at the top of society, and would be even without nauseatingly large yachts.

    The reason the elite =/= the rich there, is because even if you got rich, that probably wouldn't be enough to get you to the top. Not that people really all of a sudden "get rich".

    xlh6c3.png
  • LudiousLudious Registered User regular
    Of Course a brit in America is an Au Pair. It's either that or Butler
    Google Talk: ludious83 My Blog: The Caustic Geek
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    Ludious wrote: »
    Seriously mods? Do we REALLY have to put up with this guy? SKFM got banned from chat why not him

    Can we trade?
    Lh96QHG.png
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    You know what's more annoying than annoying discussions? People commenting on annoying discussions.



    But then you have people commenting on people commenting on annoying discussions.

    My God.

    WHAT HAVE I BECOME

    it's not really that I'm annoyed by this particular instance

    it's moreso, hey there is person x who is really irritating or whatever

    and rather than just ignore x whenever s/he shows up, every time it's like NO HAY YOU ARE WRONG X LET ME TELL YOU

    Let me tell you why you're wrong, Skippy...


    (I get you, I was just going for a joke at my own expense)
    Lh96QHG.png
  • ronyaronya hmmm over there!Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    MadCaddy wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    the thing about population issues in growth is that it is completely dominated by industrial takeoff. as long you have some surplus to divert to takeoff - and, in the modern world, you can always borrow this surplus from a country that has already taken off - population has little obvious relation how well you can vault into growth.

    We are drowning in so many possible explanations where population increases takeoff growth through the availability of local markets for industrially-produced consumer goods; certainly the raw regressions tell us nothing.

    it is true that as long growth is principally agricultural, population determines growth. But if you're stuck in this trap, you're screwed already anyway. There are no wealthy countries whose economic output is predominantly agricultural. Even if you have very low population per arable area.

    I watched the vice on Friday that spoke about how China's current Finance ministry is propagating a real estate bubble, and it just kept showing on the vacant McMansions in the ghost cities. Chinas prospects really aren't looking to hot with their current leadership, hopefully Bo has an ace up his sleeve for their sake.

    strong similarities to the 1997 asian financial crisis

    and it should be noted that whilst it was severe, the 97 crisis had essentially no impact on long-term growth

    Apparently China creates construction projects that never sell and adds them into its GDP, and this (according to VICE, so its probably exaggerated a lil bit) to the tune of 5 trillion dollars over the last 30 years

    I don't think it's quite so dire but China will be in for some turmoil if they hit a recession

    it turns out that it's actually rather hard to pour completely useless concrete; malinvestment is not as high as the Austrians would prefer. the world is more Keynesian: even if you added capital really, really badly, the amount of damage to wealth this does is second-order to first-order concerns like "how much capital do you have, and how low is your unemployment"

    I agree, and in the present term this is a huge boon

    The problem this is all a hugely inefficient use of resources and they can't keep up this pace forever, eventually it's going to be need to be replaced by some sustainable economic activity or they're going to have a huge problem

    it is sustainable

    they have a ton of people, who are not in cities, who want to be in cities

    you really think they can have a 10% growth in construction (off the top of my head) every single year forever? Construction can certainly be a big part of their GDP forever, there's no question, it's the rate of growth and percentage of GDP that trouble me

    by this definition of sustainable, no country is sustainable. look at every western country's burst of growth in healthcare/education.

    Construction is like 50% of their GDP

    You're the economics expert and if you don't see that as problematic I'll defer to you, but it kind of worries me (especially when much of it is financed by borrowing from their middle class)

    Edit: And I sure as hell see America's healthcare spending and increase as problematic and a recession in the making

    someone has to pour all the concrete that industrial societies live in. you are trying to argue that this concrete will not turn out to be useful. well, stare at a rural population chart until you have convinced yourself otherwise.

    and if you are trying to argue that construction must remain at 50% at GDP in order to avoid disaster, this is patently silly; stare at a history of Western sectoral change until you have convinced yourself otherwise.
    ronya on
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons LondresRegistered User regular
    Well some of these Middle Eastern kings may be descended from the relevant prophet. That is quite fancy
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    SKFM annoys me the most on this board.

    hes an economic elite who believes property rights trump human rights

    you're a social elite who believes birth rights trump human rights

    the two of you would make a great sitcom together

    I wouldn't call him "elite" in any sense of the word. I'd just call him rich and thats it. To believe that someone is elite needs to have something else. Rich people cannot be classed alongside the dukes and counts of Europe for example.

    true dat

    rich people have power and influence

    Only in America, I think, they do. Elsewhere in the world the forms of elitism has continued, if hidden behind the veil of equality, unchecked and still continues to do so. Unless of course scandals break out which is then somewhat exposed.

    Only in America.

    And Britain and Europe and China and Australia and the Middle East and Russia and Canada and and and

    Completely disagree about the Middle East where Royalty still shines true and bright and has continued on.

    Aw, I've missed you.

    If you have proof, I'd love to see it.

    Proof of what? Rich people having power all across the world and monarchies being increasingly meaningless?

    May I present to you The World As It Was: May 16 2013.

    I can think of like, Jordan and Saudi Arabia as I guess technically being accurate for your view, but honestly your point is wrong.

    The monied have far more power and influence than any prancing duke might play to.

    I think your mistaking money = power which then becomes money = elitism. Which is wrong.

    Money never equals to elitism, at least the non-American sense of the word, because it isn't about how much you have its about who you are. A peasant cow herder can win the lottery and become a millionare but that will never remove the fact that he and his descendents are nothing but cow herders. Money might allow you to buy things but it will never remove who you are.

    The example of Reza Shah and Mohammad Reza Shah is clear cut in this case. If you didn't know Reza Shah was nothing but a soldiers who aspired to be a Shah. He was entirely not from a bloodline that came from kings and there is currently, at least to my current knowledge, a search going on based on a small factoid that the Pahlavi name that he adopted was bought from someone who was an actual Pahlavi.

    In the Middle East the monied are the true elites and there is no others who can compete with them within their domains, geo-political issues aside, thus people like the Imam of Yemen, the Saudi King or even the Jordan King are the true elites. Not only in the Middle east but you can see it in Morocco and Brunei where the Sultans are one of the most power and true elites in the world.

    If you think about it, there isn't a king alive who isn't descended from some kind of goat farmer.
    Lh96QHG.png
  • STATE OF THE ART ROBOTSTATE OF THE ART ROBOT Registered User regular
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    Kalkino wrote: »
    Well some of these Middle Eastern kings may be descended from the relevant prophet. That is quite fancy

    It can't be fancy unless it comes with a hat.

    All the fanciest positions have hats.
  • TheNomadicCircleTheNomadicCircle Registered User regular
    japan wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    SKFM annoys me the most on this board.

    hes an economic elite who believes property rights trump human rights

    you're a social elite who believes birth rights trump human rights

    the two of you would make a great sitcom together

    I wouldn't call him "elite" in any sense of the word. I'd just call him rich and thats it. To believe that someone is elite needs to have something else. Rich people cannot be classed alongside the dukes and counts of Europe for example.

    true dat

    rich people have power and influence

    Only in America, I think, they do. Elsewhere in the world the forms of elitism has continued, if hidden behind the veil of equality, unchecked and still continues to do so. Unless of course scandals break out which is then somewhat exposed.

    Only in America.

    And Britain and Europe and China and Australia and the Middle East and Russia and Canada and and and

    Completely disagree about the Middle East where Royalty still shines true and bright and has continued on.

    Aw, I've missed you.

    If you have proof, I'd love to see it.

    Proof of what? Rich people having power all across the world and monarchies being increasingly meaningless?

    May I present to you The World As It Was: May 16 2013.

    I can think of like, Jordan and Saudi Arabia as I guess technically being accurate for your view, but honestly your point is wrong.

    The monied have far more power and influence than any prancing duke might play to.

    I think your mistaking money = power which then becomes money = elitism. Which is wrong.

    Money never equals to elitism, at least the non-American sense of the word, because it isn't about how much you have its about who you are. A peasant cow herder can win the lottery and become a millionare but that will never remove the fact that he and his descendents are nothing but cow herders. Money might allow you to buy things but it will never remove who you are.

    The example of Reza Shah and Mohammad Reza Shah is clear cut in this case. If you didn't know Reza Shah was nothing but a soldiers who aspired to be a Shah. He was entirely not from a bloodline that came from kings and there is currently, at least to my current knowledge, a search going on based on a small factoid that the Pahlavi name that he adopted was bought from someone who was an actual Pahlavi.

    In the Middle East the monied are the true elites and there is no others who can compete with them within their domains, geo-political issues aside, thus people like the Imam of Yemen, the Saudi King or even the Jordan King are the true elites. Not only in the Middle east but you can see it in Morocco and Brunei where the Sultans are one of the most power and true elites in the world.

    So, in what sense are they elite, other than that you say that they are?

    They are elite because they have ancestry to back them, their own families are the ones who captured the reigns of power and created a state for themselves which they fully control with pleasure. Their wealth is one aspect but it isn't a necessary aspect.
  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning Registered User regular
    Irond Will wrote: »
    I can't actually tell what TNC is arguing for

    he's just saying that monarchy is awesome

    because he owns some minor title in some anatolian country no one's heard of

    and, like, an ancestral fig orchard or something

    posting on the PA forums is part of noblesse oblige, you see
    The Door to Hell is a natural gas field in Derweze (also spelled Darvaza, meaning "gate"), Ahal Province, Turkmenistan. The Door to Hell is noted for its natural gas firing which has been burning continuously since it was lit by Soviet petrochemical scientists in 1971, fed by the rich natural gas deposits in the area. The pungent smell of burning sulfur pervades the area for some distance.

    800px-Darvasa_gas_crater_panorama.jpg

    and that's all you need to know about that, really

    soviet scientists were the best

    "i wonder what would happen if we.."

    "FUCK IT WE'RE DOIN' IT"
    "All models are wrong; some models are useful."
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    I'm descended from the Kings of Galloway.

    Do I get into your clubhouse?
    Lh96QHG.png
  • Caveman PawsCaveman Paws Registered User regular
    Talking to "crazies" helps me to identify my own weaknesses and ignorance.

    It's good to re calibrate once in awhile, or else wind up being that guy who can't let go of his fucked up POV.
  • redxredx Dublin, CARegistered User regular
    Stupid fish and stupid people who can eat fish

    You know that big clump of plastic swirling around in the ocean? It's slowly breaking down and entering the food chain. Eating fish isn't so great.

    (This is all according to my parents who get their news from Bill Marr and the daily show)

    I have an extremely hard time getting upset about the whole BPA/Antiandrogen thingy. Like, when folks talk about how horrible it is to reuse water bottles or leave them out in the sun, there's this niggling little voice in the back of my head going, 'Oh gosh no, that that would be just totally tragic.'
    RedX is taking a stab a moving out west, and will be near San Francisco from May 14 till June 29.
    Click here for a horrible H/A thread with details.
  • Dunadan019Dunadan019 Registered User regular
    I hope I get fired, that would be awesome.
    Mental midgets kill my inner child.
  • kaleeditykaleedity bad biscuits make the baker broke bro Registered User regular
    I am spartacharlemagne
  • ronyaronya hmmm over there!Registered User regular
    japan wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    SKFM annoys me the most on this board.

    hes an economic elite who believes property rights trump human rights

    you're a social elite who believes birth rights trump human rights

    the two of you would make a great sitcom together

    I wouldn't call him "elite" in any sense of the word. I'd just call him rich and thats it. To believe that someone is elite needs to have something else. Rich people cannot be classed alongside the dukes and counts of Europe for example.

    true dat

    rich people have power and influence

    Only in America, I think, they do. Elsewhere in the world the forms of elitism has continued, if hidden behind the veil of equality, unchecked and still continues to do so. Unless of course scandals break out which is then somewhat exposed.

    Only in America.

    And Britain and Europe and China and Australia and the Middle East and Russia and Canada and and and

    Completely disagree about the Middle East where Royalty still shines true and bright and has continued on.

    Aw, I've missed you.

    If you have proof, I'd love to see it.

    Proof of what? Rich people having power all across the world and monarchies being increasingly meaningless?

    May I present to you The World As It Was: May 16 2013.

    I can think of like, Jordan and Saudi Arabia as I guess technically being accurate for your view, but honestly your point is wrong.

    The monied have far more power and influence than any prancing duke might play to.

    I think your mistaking money = power which then becomes money = elitism. Which is wrong.

    Money never equals to elitism, at least the non-American sense of the word, because it isn't about how much you have its about who you are. A peasant cow herder can win the lottery and become a millionare but that will never remove the fact that he and his descendents are nothing but cow herders. Money might allow you to buy things but it will never remove who you are.

    The example of Reza Shah and Mohammad Reza Shah is clear cut in this case. If you didn't know Reza Shah was nothing but a soldiers who aspired to be a Shah. He was entirely not from a bloodline that came from kings and there is currently, at least to my current knowledge, a search going on based on a small factoid that the Pahlavi name that he adopted was bought from someone who was an actual Pahlavi.

    In the Middle East the monied are the true elites and there is no others who can compete with them within their domains, geo-political issues aside, thus people like the Imam of Yemen, the Saudi King or even the Jordan King are the true elites. Not only in the Middle east but you can see it in Morocco and Brunei where the Sultans are one of the most power and true elites in the world.

    So, in what sense are they elite, other than that you say that they are?

    They are elite because they have ancestry to back them, their own families are the ones who captured the reigns of power and created a state for themselves which they fully control with pleasure. Their wealth is one aspect but it isn't a necessary aspect.

    and they are rendered irrelevant the moment wealth stems from ownership of capital rather than ownership of land with oil in it

  • Irond WillIrond Will Super Moderator, Moderator mod
    MadCaddy wrote: »
    kaleedity wrote: »
    overpopulation is a matter of density, not overall population

    we're having fewer kids, but we're also moving away from shitholes

    Overpopulation is very real, and one if the reasons I have my libertarians leanings. I prefer to let Darwinism sort it out than government.

    this seems like the absolute worst way to solve the problem

    people don't passively starve to death
  • MadCaddyMadCaddy Riksadvokate Registered User regular
    MadCaddy wrote: »
    um I mostly play league of legends

    I will probably fire up tf2 maybe this weekend, I haven't played that in like a year but I used to love it

    I have walking dead and sr3 to play but I think those are single player

    probably lol has too big a learning curve for us to play together

    we can try that marvel game when it comes out with desc

    Let's play LoL's together.. I kinda raged quit after losing my promotion series for gold and getting demoted to silver 4 with strait losses and trolls as a result.

    you are welcome to play with us, we've been aram-ing often lately

    In that case....


    *takes off condom, goes back to watching reruns of Frasier*

    I'm bad at getting into my office. I have a lot of projects I've been putting off finishing, and have real financial work I gotta do first, so my gaming time has been non-existant. I also don't like ARAM that much, and like to play summoners rift try hard most.. Delusions of grandeur.

    Regardless, if you guys see me on here or there, and have a slot open shoot me a PM and ill man up and game if I'm at home. :)
    League of Legends: SorryNotRly Steam: MMForYourHealth Hero Academy: MadCaddy
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    Dunadan019 wrote: »
    I hope I get fired, that would be awesome.

    For 50% of your severance I can give you advice on how to make this dream a reality.
    Lh96QHG.png
  • MadCaddyMadCaddy Riksadvokate Registered User regular
    Yet another reason to get a surface Pro to take to the casino. I wonder how hard two tabling an ARAM and poker would be... It's might work.
    League of Legends: SorryNotRly Steam: MMForYourHealth Hero Academy: MadCaddy
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    MadCaddy wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    the thing about population issues in growth is that it is completely dominated by industrial takeoff. as long you have some surplus to divert to takeoff - and, in the modern world, you can always borrow this surplus from a country that has already taken off - population has little obvious relation how well you can vault into growth.

    We are drowning in so many possible explanations where population increases takeoff growth through the availability of local markets for industrially-produced consumer goods; certainly the raw regressions tell us nothing.

    it is true that as long growth is principally agricultural, population determines growth. But if you're stuck in this trap, you're screwed already anyway. There are no wealthy countries whose economic output is predominantly agricultural. Even if you have very low population per arable area.

    I watched the vice on Friday that spoke about how China's current Finance ministry is propagating a real estate bubble, and it just kept showing on the vacant McMansions in the ghost cities. Chinas prospects really aren't looking to hot with their current leadership, hopefully Bo has an ace up his sleeve for their sake.

    strong similarities to the 1997 asian financial crisis

    and it should be noted that whilst it was severe, the 97 crisis had essentially no impact on long-term growth

    Apparently China creates construction projects that never sell and adds them into its GDP, and this (according to VICE, so its probably exaggerated a lil bit) to the tune of 5 trillion dollars over the last 30 years

    I don't think it's quite so dire but China will be in for some turmoil if they hit a recession

    it turns out that it's actually rather hard to pour completely useless concrete; malinvestment is not as high as the Austrians would prefer. the world is more Keynesian: even if you added capital really, really badly, the amount of damage to wealth this does is second-order to first-order concerns like "how much capital do you have, and how low is your unemployment"

    I agree, and in the present term this is a huge boon

    The problem this is all a hugely inefficient use of resources and they can't keep up this pace forever, eventually it's going to be need to be replaced by some sustainable economic activity or they're going to have a huge problem

    it is sustainable

    they have a ton of people, who are not in cities, who want to be in cities

    you really think they can have a 10% growth in construction (off the top of my head) every single year forever? Construction can certainly be a big part of their GDP forever, there's no question, it's the rate of growth and percentage of GDP that trouble me

    by this definition of sustainable, no country is sustainable. look at every western country's burst of growth in healthcare/education.

    Construction is like 50% of their GDP

    You're the economics expert and if you don't see that as problematic I'll defer to you, but it kind of worries me (especially when much of it is financed by borrowing from their middle class)

    Edit: And I sure as hell see America's healthcare spending and increase as problematic and a recession in the making

    someone has to pour all the concrete that industrial societies live in. you are trying to argue that this concrete will not turn out to be useful. well, stare at a rural population chart until you have convinced yourself otherwise.

    and if you are trying to argue that construction must remain at 50% at GDP in order to avoid disaster, this is patently silly; stare at a history of Western sectoral change until you have convinced yourself otherwise.

    Their construction sector is full of corruption and inefficiency. Reporting bad numbers results in being told to stop being a trouble maker.

    I just can't parse how this is better than say, providing cheap housing for your rural citizenry, because that's not what they are doing. They are building housing that nobody can afford to live in.

    In fact the locations where this construction is happening are displacing rural economies and the people who live there can't even afford to live in the cities being built right over their farms
    override367 on
  • KageraKagera Registered User regular
    Ludious wrote: »
    Seriously mods? Do we REALLY have to put up with this guy? SKFM got banned from chat why not him

    Can we trade?

    Seriously what's with this? "SKFM is too loud about his wealth lets expel him from chat btw here's TNC to remind us how the Middle East is all about that date wealth".
    _J_ wrote:
    If we only allowed pedophiles to be parents, then we would never have to worry about children being left alone, unwatched.
    XBL: Fanatical One AIM: itskagera
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    japan wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    SKFM annoys me the most on this board.

    hes an economic elite who believes property rights trump human rights

    you're a social elite who believes birth rights trump human rights

    the two of you would make a great sitcom together

    I wouldn't call him "elite" in any sense of the word. I'd just call him rich and thats it. To believe that someone is elite needs to have something else. Rich people cannot be classed alongside the dukes and counts of Europe for example.

    true dat

    rich people have power and influence

    Only in America, I think, they do. Elsewhere in the world the forms of elitism has continued, if hidden behind the veil of equality, unchecked and still continues to do so. Unless of course scandals break out which is then somewhat exposed.

    Only in America.

    And Britain and Europe and China and Australia and the Middle East and Russia and Canada and and and

    Completely disagree about the Middle East where Royalty still shines true and bright and has continued on.

    Aw, I've missed you.

    If you have proof, I'd love to see it.

    Proof of what? Rich people having power all across the world and monarchies being increasingly meaningless?

    May I present to you The World As It Was: May 16 2013.

    I can think of like, Jordan and Saudi Arabia as I guess technically being accurate for your view, but honestly your point is wrong.

    The monied have far more power and influence than any prancing duke might play to.

    I think your mistaking money = power which then becomes money = elitism. Which is wrong.

    Money never equals to elitism, at least the non-American sense of the word, because it isn't about how much you have its about who you are. A peasant cow herder can win the lottery and become a millionare but that will never remove the fact that he and his descendents are nothing but cow herders. Money might allow you to buy things but it will never remove who you are.

    The example of Reza Shah and Mohammad Reza Shah is clear cut in this case. If you didn't know Reza Shah was nothing but a soldiers who aspired to be a Shah. He was entirely not from a bloodline that came from kings and there is currently, at least to my current knowledge, a search going on based on a small factoid that the Pahlavi name that he adopted was bought from someone who was an actual Pahlavi.

    In the Middle East the monied are the true elites and there is no others who can compete with them within their domains, geo-political issues aside, thus people like the Imam of Yemen, the Saudi King or even the Jordan King are the true elites. Not only in the Middle east but you can see it in Morocco and Brunei where the Sultans are one of the most power and true elites in the world.

    So, in what sense are they elite, other than that you say that they are?

    They are elite because they have ancestry to back them, their own families are the ones who captured the reigns of power and created a state for themselves which they fully control with pleasure. Their wealth is one aspect but it isn't a necessary aspect.

    Interestingly enough there was an episode of More or Less recently where, prompted by the protests of the self-appointed descendants of Richard III over where his remains will be buried, they calculated the proportion of the UK population that is likely to be related to the former monarch in question to at least the degree claimed by those bringing a case in the High Court.

    (it was a lot)
  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong and a cast of thousands Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Kalkino wrote: »
    Well some of these Middle Eastern kings may be descended from the relevant prophet. That is quite fancy

    I imagine in most cases, it's some dubious claim of heredity to some person who is probably an oral tradition amalgamation in the first place, reinforced by money and power over hundreds of years. Just repeating the story and suppressing the dissent until no one who cares or knows the truth is alive anymore. And from there, you can work the magic of divine right.
    Donkey Kong on
    dkmouthsig.png
  • TheNomadicCircleTheNomadicCircle Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    SKFM annoys me the most on this board.

    hes an economic elite who believes property rights trump human rights

    you're a social elite who believes birth rights trump human rights

    the two of you would make a great sitcom together

    I wouldn't call him "elite" in any sense of the word. I'd just call him rich and thats it. To believe that someone is elite needs to have something else. Rich people cannot be classed alongside the dukes and counts of Europe for example.

    true dat

    rich people have power and influence

    Only in America, I think, they do. Elsewhere in the world the forms of elitism has continued, if hidden behind the veil of equality, unchecked and still continues to do so. Unless of course scandals break out which is then somewhat exposed.

    Only in America.

    And Britain and Europe and China and Australia and the Middle East and Russia and Canada and and and

    Completely disagree about the Middle East where Royalty still shines true and bright and has continued on.

    Aw, I've missed you.

    If you have proof, I'd love to see it.

    Proof of what? Rich people having power all across the world and monarchies being increasingly meaningless?

    May I present to you The World As It Was: May 16 2013.

    I can think of like, Jordan and Saudi Arabia as I guess technically being accurate for your view, but honestly your point is wrong.

    The monied have far more power and influence than any prancing duke might play to.

    I think your mistaking money = power which then becomes money = elitism. Which is wrong.

    Money never equals to elitism, at least the non-American sense of the word, because it isn't about how much you have its about who you are. A peasant cow herder can win the lottery and become a millionare but that will never remove the fact that he and his descendents are nothing but cow herders. Money might allow you to buy things but it will never remove who you are.

    The example of Reza Shah and Mohammad Reza Shah is clear cut in this case. If you didn't know Reza Shah was nothing but a soldiers who aspired to be a Shah. He was entirely not from a bloodline that came from kings and there is currently, at least to my current knowledge, a search going on based on a small factoid that the Pahlavi name that he adopted was bought from someone who was an actual Pahlavi.

    In the Middle East the monied are the true elites and there is no others who can compete with them within their domains, geo-political issues aside, thus people like the Imam of Yemen, the Saudi King or even the Jordan King are the true elites. Not only in the Middle east but you can see it in Morocco and Brunei where the Sultans are one of the most power and true elites in the world.

    If you think about it, there isn't a king alive who isn't descended from some kind of goat farmer.

    Well no. If you stretch back to African descendants maybe. The Saudi king came from a noble family who was already controlling territory and was considered a kind of leader. Similar to the King of Jordan. He claims descent from the Prophet's tribe and has ruled Mecca in some form of another until the British support during the First world war.

    In Iran the Safavids and the subsequent descendants dynasties with the exception of Reza Shah where noble Turkmen, some in form or another. None were common goat herders. Even Chinggis Khan was a noble.
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Their ideas are old and their ideas are bad. Risk is our business.Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    actually, the middle east is interesting and I don't really know how shit works there

    I mean, I know they've got old-school absolute monarchies, but the royals don't count as "the elite"

    they rule the elite.

    But how do the top positions in business, government and society in those countries work?

    They are occupied by the extended family of the grand poobah.

    well there you have it. An "elite" that does not mean "rich". Since just being rich isn't enough to get to the top. It means part of some exclusive elitist group. Incredibly exclusive in this case.

    The Elite are The Rich.

    If not for delicious oil money they would not be The Elite.

    I guess he is technically correct, but mostly full of shit?

    *shrug*

    No, without delicious oil money, they'd be The Elite, just not as rich. They're the elite of that country, they're clearly at the top of society, and would be even without nauseatingly large yachts.

    The reason the elite =/= the rich there, is because even if you got rich, that probably wouldn't be enough to get you to the top. Not that people really all of a sudden "get rich".

    You aren't going to become rich if you aren't the king's cousin.

    The elite=the rich there. Because their great grand pappy happened to have his butt on the throne when we decided oil was an important thing and they're a big family.
    Lh96QHG.png
  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    I cannot stop laughing at this amazing gif

    http://imgur.com/gallery/Xl8pjnl

    Oh my god

    i am repulsed.

    his eyes...his mouth...the blue.

    oh god the end.
    Yet that is exactly what i see here.
  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning Registered User regular
    today, i am thankful that they're going to remake Shogun as a tv show
    "All models are wrong; some models are useful."
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Irond Will wrote: »
    chat all walking down the street

    some wild-haired guy, reeking of BO and moonshine, comes up and starts yelling about timecube

    chat stops to have a 30 minute argument

    look man

    without the fear that you might get stabbed by a screwdriver

    there's nothing stopping you from really engaging with crazy

    Penny Arcade Mod Staff: We're Basically the Crazy Screwdriver in Your Forum Equation
    Successful Kickstarter get! Drop by Bare Mettle Entertainment if you'd like to see what we're making.
This discussion has been closed.