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Nintendo decides it owns YouTube's Let's Play scene
Posts
What's the problem?
Unmotivate - Updated May 17th - "Let's Complain About Nintendo"
The PA Forumer 'Lets Play' Archive - Updated March 25th, 2013
Regardless.
What I think is, that at least for Nintendo games, LPs of them actually increase sales.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
Unmotivate - Updated May 17th - "Let's Complain About Nintendo"
The PA Forumer 'Lets Play' Archive - Updated March 25th, 2013
Have you ever read the license agreement for any games you've purchased? They don't actually "own" the game.
Are you referring to the bolded part here?
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
The stuff that I was bringing up, specifically the wording of what is considered content that Nintendo would be grabbing the ad revenue for, is that it's way too broad and will just take it for anything and everything that contains any imagery from their properties, be it an LP or a review or even an achievement guide. The other discussion seems to have switched over to "if a lets play warrants a split of ad revenue with the game creator or not".
I went back and watched the whole LP too, effectively getting even more enjoyment out of it. Especially when he met the librarians.
You know what point you are deliberately missing or avoiding? Explain to me how not having LPs increases sales and you don't get "Space magic" as an answer. I think it's pretty fair to say they can swing people either way, much like a review except a bigger and more continuous chunk. I also think its reasonable to say people who watch a whole games LP either played it before, it's replayable or they never intended to buy it in the first place.
Also if I watch a whole LP of a non-multiplayer single player game, I did indeed not buy it.
But here is the point: I was never going to buy it. Want an example, Sonic 06. Now be honest, would you buy that game?
See, now that is a point I hadn't thought of and I can totally see where you're coming from in that case.
Are you arguing against yourself here?
You say that you don't see the problem with the revenue going to Nintendo instead of the LPer.
Then you quote someone saying how ridiculous the argument is that "people shouldn't make profit for just talking over a game.", because it's a lot more expensive than that. You're not going to make a carreer in that because it's not profitable.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
A movie can be considered ingredients, too. I am trying to explain my position over and over but you keep coming back to the same thing.
I think that yes, it should be possible to use IPs as parts of a work further in the chain. In other words, you should be able to use parts of works to do some other work if you are adding some work and some value to the mix, why the hell not. The specific example I was thinking are TB's WTFs, but you can apply it to any review, spuffing, dubbing and whatever you like.
If you are going to ask me for a specific definition of where's the line that says "you have added enough" I have no objective definition.
As an alternative, you could not take my food analogy literally and accept it as a clumsy metaphor and read what I have been writing since then.
Also this post puts it better:
My apologies, I thought it was directed at me! I agree entirely with your core point there.
Wooooooooooooooooosh
Unmotivate - Updated May 17th - "Let's Complain About Nintendo"
The PA Forumer 'Lets Play' Archive - Updated March 25th, 2013
I'm not necessarily saying there is one, but you'd do well to understand what is actually happening before passing judgment.
It's also targeting reviewers and not just LPers.
I've already made arguments in the thread about how I feel these people aren't entitled to the money they were making using someone else's work as a platform.
Unmotivate - Updated May 17th - "Let's Complain About Nintendo"
The PA Forumer 'Lets Play' Archive - Updated March 25th, 2013
What's the problem?
If you've got a domain name, generate ad revenue there.
Unmotivate - Updated May 17th - "Let's Complain About Nintendo"
The PA Forumer 'Lets Play' Archive - Updated March 25th, 2013
Again: I'd be happy to drop this point of discussion, at least partially.
However: The instant you decide to watch a complete LP of a linear game (and follow through with it), you decide against buying it. Sale lost.
Does that mean LPs generally decrease sale numbers? Probably not, because they are also free advertisement.
You're trying to argue that it's impossible for an LP to stop even a single person from buying a game.
Which is already not true. There've been cases where I wanted a game, however didn't buy it because I still had other games to play. I decided to take a peek at a LP, got hooked, didn't even think about it, watched the whole thing and was then not interested into buying the game anymore.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
The Shining Force stuff was the result of a japanese employee flagging videos for removal without consent of the company.
Oh wow, no idea this statement had been issued.
Unmotivate - Updated May 17th - "Let's Complain About Nintendo"
The PA Forumer 'Lets Play' Archive - Updated March 25th, 2013
You won't be getting the views and ads from google if you don't put it on YT.
Well, for one, I'm surprised you still haven't understood it in 6 pages, Nintendo is not just merely showing Nintendo ads but all revenue generated from the videos goes to Nintendo. It's redirecting revenue from the creator (the LP author) to Nintendo. Please understand that. 6 pages. Jesus. It's not just showing Nintendo ads and that's that.
Plus, your second part sounds like a ridiculous argument to be had.
What job do you have that somehow isn't making money off of someone else's work?
Youtube does this while also providing hosting services for the content. So... my reply stands. Nintendo is mass carpet bombing the whole country side when all it needs to do is take out the one house on a hillside it's got a problem with.
Really? At what point was I ever going to buy Sonic 06? The answer btw, was never.
Actually I have never said that, because I have said LPs to me are like reviews. Do you agree reviews can stop people buying a game? Then viola, LPs can as well. I didn't want to sit through the utterly mediocre gameplay of Spec Ops to see what was special about the story. But then again, this goes into my argument below:
My non-review based argument was about people who never intended to buy the game in the first place watching an LP instead. If the LP does not exist, they do not suddenly go and buy the game, they do something else. The only benefit is a potential sale from the LP if they happen to actually like the game. I watched Spec Ops to see what was special about the story, but no way could I tolerate the bland generic looking gameplay it had. If the LP didn't exist I wouldn't have suddenly bought the game, I would have just read about it instead.
You do realize that this is how most creative works produced have come to be? The degree of using other people's work as a platform varies, it's usually called "inspiration". Almost all creative work uses existing works and cultural issues etc. as the basis for producing new content, and this is something originally recognized in copyright law. It's been long since perverted, but the sentiment is no less valid. You can't really argue that the LP commentary is something that doesn't produce additional value that isn't (at least to some degree) divorced from the game in question. The LP could be produced just as well using other games, or, fuck, playing chess on a board and producing an interesting narrative to it. This all depends on whether you consider the LP to be the product, or the LP to be of strictly tertiary importance to the game being presented, and the success(or lack of it) of the LP to be unrelated to the quality of the LP as a product, and dependent entirely on the game.
I... what the fuck? Yes I know that Nintendo is taking the ad revenue. Did I not flat out say it here in this thread? I apologize, I've discussed this topic in places aside from here and don't remember what I've precisely said where. Are you done?
Unmotivate - Updated May 17th - "Let's Complain About Nintendo"
The PA Forumer 'Lets Play' Archive - Updated March 25th, 2013
At what point did I argue that you were?
"You know what point you are deliberately missing or avoiding? Explain to me how not having LPs increases sales and you don't get "Space magic" as an answer."
I explained it to you. No matter how small the ammount, the point stands.
Please stop being degrading or insulting in your posts and making up strawmen.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
The first game I thought of was Spec Ops. I played through Spec Ops and while I enjoyed it, I can say for certain that someone watching a Let's Play probably would get enough of the experience that buying it might feel optional to them. If that company decided to take down LPs, I could completely understand it. Nintendo is saying you can share the entire content of their game, just don't expect to get paid for it.
I don't see why this is surprising - if I put up a video of an entire NBA game with me doing my own commentary, I guarantee it won't last long on YouTube, if I put up a commentary over Season 1 of Game of Thrones, I'll bet it disappears rapidly. LPers are fortunate they were able to profit from this at all, this is actually a pretty friendly move by Nintendo compared to the alternative.
Many of the channels have also been restored, and those that haven't are in the process of being restored. Aaron Webber posted the response at Shining Force Central, expecting them to pass it along. I guess it didn't.
The problem was a breakdown in communication between SOJ and SOA. A japanese employee was flagging Shining Force content thinking it was related to the then-upcoming Shining Ark. Once the community got the ear of Sega Digital manager RubyEclipse, the problem was resolved.
There's a difference between the inspiration to create and the 'inspiration' to talk over someone else's work while you engage it. In the latter you are creating nothing.
Yes, the LPs are producing some sort of entertainment. But people making it their 'business' need to understand there's a right way and wrong way to do it. You wanna make a career out of playing video games in the LP fashion? Contact a developer or publisher with a portfolio of your work and proof of traffic you generate. Offer to do marketing for them, either for a fee (game to game, freelancing your marketing skills) or hook up exclusively with a company for a time. Now you have an actual job playing video games, complete with the blessings and not getting caught up in legal bullshit about what you may or may not be entitled to.
Nintendo demonstrated that the income stream can close, it is not inherent with just uploading any fucking thing to YouTube.
Unmotivate - Updated May 17th - "Let's Complain About Nintendo"
The PA Forumer 'Lets Play' Archive - Updated March 25th, 2013
Pokemon Black code - 3009 7390 5907 Send PM if you add me
Did you not write that? So again, when was I ever going to buy Sonic 06? Or is this point flat out wrong as my reply indicates it is?
Spec Ops is a good example because the whole buzz of that game was that the game was the gameplay was pretty bland but the writing was great. I watched an LP of Spec Ops and was like "welp, that was Ok, now I have no desire to play this game".
Inspiration isn't the same thing as a straight usage.
So it was still a big ol' mess but there's a resolution. Okay, that Sega thing is less destructive than it actually was.
Unmotivate - Updated May 17th - "Let's Complain About Nintendo"
The PA Forumer 'Lets Play' Archive - Updated March 25th, 2013
1. You didn't show me the point where I said "before this condition is met, you were of the opposite opinion."
2. You ignored the rest of my post.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
Sounds like you didn't quite understand the situation from these and other posts.
Still waiting for your magical job that doesn't depend on other's work.
While you're thinking of that, try reading
http://www.salon.com/2011/10/01/creative_class_is_a_lie/
Because this whole making a career or bling bling from moma's basement is a myth, and quite frankly it's disheartening that you are advocating for Nintendo's position
After that, you might want to take a look at this--what you, and others are perpetuating here is this all or nothing capitlism we see time after time when it comes to Internet and content. Basically, your position may be increasing the inequality in society--part of the destruction of the middle class.
http://www.salon.com/2013/05/12/jaron_lanier_the_internet_destroyed_the_middle_class/
It's not just a dick move Nintendo took, and it's technically within their 'right' (who created these rights? why do these rights exist? are rights always right?), but it's short-sighted and is the wrong move for the Internet to take.
@Aegeri
"You know what point you are deliberately missing or avoiding? Explain to me how not having LPs increases sales and you don't get "Space magic" as an answer."
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
Such videos would almost certainly be subject to removal because of this policy, which bums me out. They're a useful tool for me, and not a substitute to actually playing the game.
This entire conversation about the morality and legality of Let's Plays is about copyleft, btw. I don't think anybody is going to walk away from this topic satisfied, because the entire concept of copyleft is still fiercely debated.
For what its worth, my own personal solution to all this is to do exactly what rifftrax does - release an audio-only video that the uploader can profit off of, and let nintendo (or whoever) profit off of advertisements for the gameplay. Basically split the audio and video. You could use an external website like youtube doubler to sync, or develop a 3rd party app to sync downloaded video like Rifftrax supplies. This would let both parties profit off of the parts of the final product they own.
Here, let me try to make myself clear in a brazen matter.
Get a real job.
Unmotivate - Updated May 17th - "Let's Complain About Nintendo"
The PA Forumer 'Lets Play' Archive - Updated March 25th, 2013