Ho! Ha ha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust! [Chat]!

Winky · May 2013

I mean, we're not talking the Ulysses of posts here, but enough to spark a discussion.

MadCaddy · May 2013

Irond Will wrote: »

MadCaddy wrote: »

Irond Will wrote: »

MadCaddy wrote: »

Irond Will wrote: »

like it's kind of hard to find many high spots in 90s music. people my age remember it fondly because we were young at the time, but it really hasn't held up very well.

pearl jam/ soundgarden/ alice in chains were so. fucking. tedious. and samey.

the 90s downtempo r&b was terrible (r kelly, sisco, usher, jodeci, etc)

the boy bands were terrible

rap got really ugly and terrible in the 90s.

"big country" was a thing and it was terrible.

decent bands from the 90s:
1) smashing pumpkins before they got bloated and terrible
2) radiohead
3) oasis
4) nirvana
5) beck
6) pixies, though i don't really count them as a 90s band. they were pretty much over by 91 or so. the breeders were okay tho.

I would add some caveats to this, and fuck you all for hating on Reel Big Fish. I can understand no one liking The MadCaddies, but RBF was pretty big by the time Oasis was a monster. At least as big as the Pixies.
I'd also consider Nirvana an 80s band, since Kurt killed himself in 94

i only followed ska kind of casually - madness and desmond decker and like the english beat and the bosstones. i think i saw a skatellites show. but yeah the 90s were probably the high point for ska.

frankie liked ska a lot though.

the 90s were an okay time for pop-punk. like, green day and the offspring and nofx get shat on a lot because it's not REAL PUNK but it's fun music that doesn't take itself too seriously which is what punk is supposed to be.

Eh see that's where we differ a bit. I have no problem with the music they made, but that's not what punk was, originally. When I think punk I think Velvet Underground, Minor Threat, Dead Kennedies and Crass as the genre standards. Music with a message against a system. I didn't hate NOFX or Pennywise or anything (some of their stuff has even grown on me, and I'll listen it through when it pops up.)" but I just think their music was Pop ispired by Punk instead of actual Punk music.

Ska is a very convoluted conversation to get into, since there has been a lot of "Proto-ska" bands, but I really dig some of the punk ska combinations like Less than Jake and Citizen Fish. If you've never heard The Specials they're the grandsires of current ska, imho. Ghost Town is an awesome track, and Rudy.

the ramones, the descendents, the sex pistols and the clash (before they got too political) were exactly about diy music that was fun to see at a show and didn't take itself too seriously. these are probably the first actual punk bands if you're not, like, someone who insists on richard hell/ television/ etc

the next wave of punk - dk, suicidal tendencies, bad brains, etc, got really political and angry and angsty and whatever - they have their place - but it's not like this is the only legit punk music. i really don't care for this era of punk. IMO, the best thing that came out of punk in the 80s were the arty alt-rock post-punk like the talking heads and elvis costello and the pogues.

so then you have the 90s pop-punk stuff that is just kids making fun music and not taking themselves too seriously - just like the ramones and early clash - and suddenly they're considered not "real punk"?! it's ridiculous.

i'm not even sure i'd consider the velvet underground legit "punk" - though i like them a lot. they were an art-rock band bankrolled by andy warhol.

i do like the specials. really i think i like the early ska because it hadn't really settled into a distinct formula. one of my friends got super into ska in the 90s - he'd wear clothes with checkerboards on them and blast ska in his car all day every day - and it all kind of ran together to me.

The first four you mentioned weren't about having fun, but about either making money, or had a political ideology/nihilist/disenfranchisement with "the system" that they wished to express in art. It's kinda hard to characterize early punk shows as occurring just for a group to have fun; more having their voices/feelings heard.

There're a lotta precursors to punk (much like Rock & Roll and Jazz), and imho, the Velvet Underground was the closest. I can respect your not liking the same type of punk as me, but the pop punk of the 90s was much different than what was originally perceived to be so. Lets not even get started about the financial differences.

TehSloth · May 2013

Irond Will wrote: »

spool32 wrote: »

You consider Suicidal Tendencies punk?

Art of Rebellion is a fabulous album, but I wouldn't call it punk. It's closer to thrash or some other variant of metal. I have to be careful here or I'll accidentally summon the heshers to the thread and they have opinions about subgenres...

yeah maybe. i guess i can see either way with suicidal tendencies. i guess i really only listened to their early stuff and it had a real punk sound to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tBaMlAUj08

they ended up going in more of a metal direction i guess

Yeah, a lot of punk straddles that line. Leftover Crack is a pretty good example, a lot of Mediocre Generica could easily be classified as metal (I think, I'm not really a big fan of the genre but it's what I would call metal-y) and some of it is really skate-punky.

Dread Pirate Arbuthnot · May 2013

@Rear Admiral Choco I NEED TO GET LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAID

wandering · May 2013

Thomamelas wrote: »

Hamurabi wrote: »

AManFromEarth wrote: »

21stCentury wrote: »

MadCaddy wrote: »

So, chat, all answer one word so I can build consensus (reasons if you want, it just y/n is greatly appreciated.)

Weezer yay or nay?

Yay. i don't know them, but i'm okay with anyone liking whatever they like.

Even Hitler?

We should outlaw painting and vegetarianism.

Hitler wasn't a vegetarian. He sometimes had a vegetarian diet because of gas issues but the idea he was a vegetarian was just Gobbles propaganda.

I thought vegetables increased rather than decreased farting

Hamurabi · May 2013

Honestly, music is yet another venue for people to define themselves through the practice of consumption.

Eddy · May 2013

Hamurabi wrote: »

Honestly, music is yet another venue for people to define themselves through the practice of consumption.

We have a sociologist among us

Get outta here, Frenchie

Irond Will · May 2013

Element Brian wrote: »

Nirvana defined the 90's. Yeah they started in the late 80's. But when you look at their style, and then just think of the way people were in the 90's, Nirvana encapsulated that so well.

Also, since I was just a kid during the 90's and throughout high school in the early 2000s my taste in music was still pretty shitty. That aside, I'm sick of the shitting on anything anyone else likes. You know, most of Blink 182 I can't really listen to anymore, but I LOVE 'Dammit' and still consider it one of my favorite songs. Same goes for most of RHCP and Sublime. I won't actively listen to it, but if i go to a bar and someone is playing a cover of Santeria, i'm going to fucking sing a long and love the hell out of it.

Also No Doubt, just because of Spider Webs.

in fairness, deebaser is just wallowing in his nostalgic ignorance and needs to be brought up to modern civilization standards

then we can start working on his cholera

shalmelo · May 2013

Irond Will wrote: »

MadCaddy wrote: »

Irond Will wrote: »

MadCaddy wrote: »

Irond Will wrote: »

like it's kind of hard to find many high spots in 90s music. people my age remember it fondly because we were young at the time, but it really hasn't held up very well.

pearl jam/ soundgarden/ alice in chains were so. fucking. tedious. and samey.

the 90s downtempo r&b was terrible (r kelly, sisco, usher, jodeci, etc)

the boy bands were terrible

rap got really ugly and terrible in the 90s.

"big country" was a thing and it was terrible.

decent bands from the 90s:
1) smashing pumpkins before they got bloated and terrible
2) radiohead
3) oasis
4) nirvana
5) beck
6) pixies, though i don't really count them as a 90s band. they were pretty much over by 91 or so. the breeders were okay tho.

I would add some caveats to this, and fuck you all for hating on Reel Big Fish. I can understand no one liking The MadCaddies, but RBF was pretty big by the time Oasis was a monster. At least as big as the Pixies.
I'd also consider Nirvana an 80s band, since Kurt killed himself in 94

i only followed ska kind of casually - madness and desmond decker and like the english beat and the bosstones. i think i saw a skatellites show. but yeah the 90s were probably the high point for ska.

frankie liked ska a lot though.

the 90s were an okay time for pop-punk. like, green day and the offspring and nofx get shat on a lot because it's not REAL PUNK but it's fun music that doesn't take itself too seriously which is what punk is supposed to be.

Eh see that's where we differ a bit. I have no problem with the music they made, but that's not what punk was, originally. When I think punk I think Velvet Underground, Minor Threat, Dead Kennedies and Crass as the genre standards. Music with a message against a system. I didn't hate NOFX or Pennywise or anything (some of their stuff has even grown on me, and I'll listen it through when it pops up.)" but I just think their music was Pop ispired by Punk instead of actual Punk music.

Ska is a very convoluted conversation to get into, since there has been a lot of "Proto-ska" bands, but I really dig some of the punk ska combinations like Less than Jake and Citizen Fish. If you've never heard The Specials they're the grandsires of current ska, imho. Ghost Town is an awesome track, and Rudy.

the ramones, the descendents, the sex pistols and the clash (before they got too political) were exactly about diy music that was fun to see at a show and didn't take itself too seriously. these are probably the first actual punk bands if you're not, like, someone who insists on richard hell/ television/ etc

the next wave of punk - dk, suicidal tendencies, bad brains, etc, got really political and angry and angsty and whatever - they have their place - but it's not like this is the only legit punk music. i really don't care for this era of punk. IMO, the best thing that came out of punk in the 80s were the arty alt-rock post-punk like the talking heads and elvis costello and the pogues.

so then you have the 90s pop-punk stuff that is just kids making fun music and not taking themselves too seriously - just like the ramones and early clash - and suddenly they're considered not "real punk"?! it's ridiculous.

i'm not even sure i'd consider the velvet underground legit "punk" - though i like them a lot. they were an art-rock band bankrolled by andy warhol.

i do like the specials. really i think i like the early ska because it hadn't really settled into a distinct formula. one of my friends got super into ska in the 90s - he'd wear clothes with checkerboards on them and blast ska in his car all day every day - and it all kind of ran together to me.

God, I knew so many huge ska fans in college.

I have a lingering love of rock with brass, but yeah, a lot of the ska stuff winds up sounding the same before long. I enjoy dropping one ska song into a playlist at times, but I don't think I'd ever listen to a full album of the stuff.

And yes, the Specials are an exception in their own category.

Thomamelas · May 2013

wandering wrote: »

Thomamelas wrote: »

Hamurabi wrote: »

AManFromEarth wrote: »

21stCentury wrote: »

MadCaddy wrote: »

So, chat, all answer one word so I can build consensus (reasons if you want, it just y/n is greatly appreciated.)

Weezer yay or nay?

Yay. i don't know them, but i'm okay with anyone liking whatever they like.

Even Hitler?

We should outlaw painting and vegetarianism.

Hitler wasn't a vegetarian. He sometimes had a vegetarian diet because of gas issues but the idea he was a vegetarian was just Gobbles propaganda.

I thought vegetables increased rather than decreased farting

I never said his doctors were good.

Shivahn · May 2013

Dread Pirate Arbuthnot wrote: »

"Rear Admiral Choco" I NEED TO GET LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAID

Chat in general needs to get laid.

There is a line forming even.

Stop hogging all the sex.

Winky · May 2013

It even had options.

Like, do none of you want to talk about how racist orcs are?

Thomamelas · May 2013

Hey Cass, have you thought about porting your game over to the new GMC rules?

MadCaddy · May 2013

Like, Joe Strummer himself said that he didn't consider the Clash's later stuff punk in the least. Kinda hard to call Rock the Casbah a punk song.

Eddy · May 2013

Pierre Bourdieu gave us class differentiation because he loved us

And he was doomed to have his wine-drenched baguette-shaped liver plucked out for eternity for his Frankish crime

So It Goes · May 2013

Winky wrote: »

It even had options.

Like, do none of you want to talk about how racist orcs are?

no

spool32 · May 2013

Irond Will wrote: »

Element Brian wrote: »

Nirvana defined the 90's. Yeah they started in the late 80's. But when you look at their style, and then just think of the way people were in the 90's, Nirvana encapsulated that so well.

Also, since I was just a kid during the 90's and throughout high school in the early 2000s my taste in music was still pretty shitty. That aside, I'm sick of the shitting on anything anyone else likes. You know, most of Blink 182 I can't really listen to anymore, but I LOVE 'Dammit' and still consider it one of my favorite songs. Same goes for most of RHCP and Sublime. I won't actively listen to it, but if i go to a bar and someone is playing a cover of Santeria, i'm going to fucking sing a long and love the hell out of it.

Also No Doubt, just because of Spider Webs.

in fairness, deebaser is just wallowing in his nostalgic ignorance and needs to be brought up to modern civilization standards

then we can start working on his cholera

Dee and I will fite u

Element Brian · May 2013

also someone mentioned the whole getting into clash and sex pistols, smiths etc because of 90's pop punk is exactly what happened to me,

I love this song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3Yl4ehzX-o

Thomamelas · May 2013

Shivahn wrote: »

Dread Pirate Arbuthnot wrote: »

"Rear Admiral Choco" I NEED TO GET LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAID

Chat in general needs to get laid.

There is a line forming even.

Stop hogging all the sex.

I mean I wouldn't turn some down but I'm in a good place right now in terms of sexual need.

Winky · May 2013

Eddy wrote: »

Hamurabi wrote: »

Honestly, music is yet another venue for people to define themselves through the practice of consumption.

We have a sociologist among us

Get outta here, Frenchie

I've made the argument before that the social function of music is primarily divisive in nature.

Eddy · May 2013

Winky wrote: »

It even had options.

Like, do none of you want to talk about how racist orcs are?

*strokes kramer-esque portrait of SKFM*

no...

some things are still too tender...

So It Goes · May 2013

blink 182 was a gateway drug

Eddy · May 2013

Winky wrote: »

Eddy wrote: »

Hamurabi wrote: »

Honestly, music is yet another venue for people to define themselves through the practice of consumption.

We have a sociologist among us

Get outta here, Frenchie

I've made the argument before that the social function of music is primarily divisive in nature.

Get in line with approximately 800 60s-era french sociologist philosophers

and of course you're looking at it too narrowly

any and all media consumption is at least partially an act of segmentation

Winky · May 2013

Eddy wrote: »

Winky wrote: »

It even had options.

Like, do none of you want to talk about how racist orcs are?

*strokes kramer-esque portrait of SKFM*

no...

some things are still too tender...

Was orc-based racism an SKFM thing?

Dread Pirate Arbuthnot · May 2013

Thomamelas wrote: »

Hey Cass, have you thought about porting your game over to the new GMC rules?

yes i have but i get intimidated every time i open the pdf

Dread Pirate Arbuthnot · May 2013

Shivahn wrote: »

Dread Pirate Arbuthnot wrote: »

"Rear Admiral Choco" I NEED TO GET LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAID

Chat in general needs to get laid.

There is a line forming even.

Stop hogging all the sex.

Aaron and I have been having sex for so long that our genitals are perfectly molded to one another

nexuscrawler · May 2013

MadCaddy wrote: »

Irond Will wrote: »

MadCaddy wrote: »

Irond Will wrote: »

MadCaddy wrote: »

Irond Will wrote: »

like it's kind of hard to find many high spots in 90s music. people my age remember it fondly because we were young at the time, but it really hasn't held up very well.

pearl jam/ soundgarden/ alice in chains were so. fucking. tedious. and samey.

the 90s downtempo r&b was terrible (r kelly, sisco, usher, jodeci, etc)

the boy bands were terrible

rap got really ugly and terrible in the 90s.

"big country" was a thing and it was terrible.

decent bands from the 90s:
1) smashing pumpkins before they got bloated and terrible
2) radiohead
3) oasis
4) nirvana
5) beck
6) pixies, though i don't really count them as a 90s band. they were pretty much over by 91 or so. the breeders were okay tho.

I would add some caveats to this, and fuck you all for hating on Reel Big Fish. I can understand no one liking The MadCaddies, but RBF was pretty big by the time Oasis was a monster. At least as big as the Pixies.
I'd also consider Nirvana an 80s band, since Kurt killed himself in 94

i only followed ska kind of casually - madness and desmond decker and like the english beat and the bosstones. i think i saw a skatellites show. but yeah the 90s were probably the high point for ska.

frankie liked ska a lot though.

the 90s were an okay time for pop-punk. like, green day and the offspring and nofx get shat on a lot because it's not REAL PUNK but it's fun music that doesn't take itself too seriously which is what punk is supposed to be.

Eh see that's where we differ a bit. I have no problem with the music they made, but that's not what punk was, originally. When I think punk I think Velvet Underground, Minor Threat, Dead Kennedies and Crass as the genre standards. Music with a message against a system. I didn't hate NOFX or Pennywise or anything (some of their stuff has even grown on me, and I'll listen it through when it pops up.)" but I just think their music was Pop ispired by Punk instead of actual Punk music.

Ska is a very convoluted conversation to get into, since there has been a lot of "Proto-ska" bands, but I really dig some of the punk ska combinations like Less than Jake and Citizen Fish. If you've never heard The Specials they're the grandsires of current ska, imho. Ghost Town is an awesome track, and Rudy.

the ramones, the descendents, the sex pistols and the clash (before they got too political) were exactly about diy music that was fun to see at a show and didn't take itself too seriously. these are probably the first actual punk bands if you're not, like, someone who insists on richard hell/ television/ etc

the next wave of punk - dk, suicidal tendencies, bad brains, etc, got really political and angry and angsty and whatever - they have their place - but it's not like this is the only legit punk music. i really don't care for this era of punk. IMO, the best thing that came out of punk in the 80s were the arty alt-rock post-punk like the talking heads and elvis costello and the pogues.

so then you have the 90s pop-punk stuff that is just kids making fun music and not taking themselves too seriously - just like the ramones and early clash - and suddenly they're considered not "real punk"?! it's ridiculous.

i'm not even sure i'd consider the velvet underground legit "punk" - though i like them a lot. they were an art-rock band bankrolled by andy warhol.

i do like the specials. really i think i like the early ska because it hadn't really settled into a distinct formula. one of my friends got super into ska in the 90s - he'd wear clothes with checkerboards on them and blast ska in his car all day every day - and it all kind of ran together to me.

The first four you mentioned weren't about having fun, but about either making money, or had a political ideology/nihilist/disenfranchisement with "the system" that they wished to express in art. It's kinda hard to characterize early punk shows as occurring just for a group to have fun; more having their voices/feelings heard.

There're a lotta precursors to punk (much like Rock & Roll and Jazz), and imho, the Velvet Underground was the closest. I can respect your not liking the same type of punk as me, but the pop punk of the 90s was much different than what was originally perceived to be so. Lets not even get started about the financial differences.

90s music can't really be discussed without talking about how MTV distorted the whole industry

Winky · May 2013

Eddy wrote: »

Winky wrote: »

Eddy wrote: »

Hamurabi wrote: »

Honestly, music is yet another venue for people to define themselves through the practice of consumption.

We have a sociologist among us

Get outta here, Frenchie

I've made the argument before that the social function of music is primarily divisive in nature.

Get in line with approximately 800 60s-era french sociologist philosophers

I don't want to

They don't respect personal space

Winky · May 2013

Eddy wrote: »

Winky wrote: »

Eddy wrote: »

Hamurabi wrote: »

Honestly, music is yet another venue for people to define themselves through the practice of consumption.

We have a sociologist among us

Get outta here, Frenchie

I've made the argument before that the social function of music is primarily divisive in nature.

Get in line with approximately 800 60s-era french sociologist philosophers

I don't want to

They don't respect personal space

Eddy · May 2013

Aaron's dick twists garishly in a clockwise pattern, knobs at the end like the teeth of keys

zagdrob · May 2013

I've gotta admit, I've always had a thing for the 90's bands like New Radicals, Cake, Violent Femmes, Pulp, Outfield, Garbage, etc.

A lot of it I wouldn't choose to listen to today, but I definitely don't mind if I happen to have one of their songs come up in the shuffle.

Irond Will · May 2013

Hamurabi wrote: »

Honestly, music is yet another venue for people to define themselves through the practice of consumption.

you know, it used to seem really important to me

now i mostly just don't care

though i think it's kind of fun to talk about

like the other day frankie was shitting on justin bieber

and i was like

name one justin bieber song

she couldn't of course

but you know even if she could, there's nothing really wrong with what the kid is doing

which is making euphonic croony pop songs for teenage girls

(and pedophiles)

Shivahn · May 2013

Thomamelas wrote: »

Shivahn wrote: »

Dread Pirate Arbuthnot wrote: »

"Rear Admiral Choco" I NEED TO GET LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAID

Chat in general needs to get laid.

There is a line forming even.

Stop hogging all the sex.

I mean I wouldn't turn some down but I'm in a good place right now in terms of sexual need.

Ok well

Mostly what I meant is I need that.

I... think.

wandering · May 2013

Hamurabi wrote: »

Honestly, music is yet another venue for people to define themselves through the practice of consumption.

to fight consumerism I will now only consume awful things like Jeff Foxworthy stand up, smooth jazz music, and Kraft mac and cheese

MadCaddy · May 2013

Irond Will wrote: »

spool32 wrote: »

You consider Suicidal Tendencies punk?

Art of Rebellion is a fabulous album, but I wouldn't call it punk. It's closer to thrash or some other variant of metal. I have to be careful here or I'll accidentally summon the heshers to the thread and they have opinions about subgenres...

yeah maybe. i guess i can see either way with suicidal tendencies. i guess i really only listened to their early stuff and it had a real punk sound to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tBaMlAUj08

they ended up going in more of a metal direction i guess

My favorite buzzcocks song there, obv.

shalmelo · May 2013

So It Goes wrote: »

blink 182 was a gateway drug

Pretty much. If you listen to this sort-of-shitty band and like it, you will almost certainly progress into listening to similar bands from back in the day that are significantly less shitty.

Gooey · May 2013

blink 182 was uptempo 3 chord songs about girls with standard ramones drums

BUT IT WAS TOTALLY POSER MUSIC B-CUZ IT WAS POPULAR GAWD

Haphazard · May 2013

nexuscrawler wrote: »

MadCaddy wrote: »

Irond Will wrote: »

MadCaddy wrote: »

Irond Will wrote: »

MadCaddy wrote: »

Irond Will wrote: »

like it's kind of hard to find many high spots in 90s music. people my age remember it fondly because we were young at the time, but it really hasn't held up very well.

pearl jam/ soundgarden/ alice in chains were so. fucking. tedious. and samey.

the 90s downtempo r&b was terrible (r kelly, sisco, usher, jodeci, etc)

the boy bands were terrible

rap got really ugly and terrible in the 90s.

"big country" was a thing and it was terrible.

decent bands from the 90s:
1) smashing pumpkins before they got bloated and terrible
2) radiohead
3) oasis
4) nirvana
5) beck
6) pixies, though i don't really count them as a 90s band. they were pretty much over by 91 or so. the breeders were okay tho.

I would add some caveats to this, and fuck you all for hating on Reel Big Fish. I can understand no one liking The MadCaddies, but RBF was pretty big by the time Oasis was a monster. At least as big as the Pixies.
I'd also consider Nirvana an 80s band, since Kurt killed himself in 94

i only followed ska kind of casually - madness and desmond decker and like the english beat and the bosstones. i think i saw a skatellites show. but yeah the 90s were probably the high point for ska.

frankie liked ska a lot though.

the 90s were an okay time for pop-punk. like, green day and the offspring and nofx get shat on a lot because it's not REAL PUNK but it's fun music that doesn't take itself too seriously which is what punk is supposed to be.

Eh see that's where we differ a bit. I have no problem with the music they made, but that's not what punk was, originally. When I think punk I think Velvet Underground, Minor Threat, Dead Kennedies and Crass as the genre standards. Music with a message against a system. I didn't hate NOFX or Pennywise or anything (some of their stuff has even grown on me, and I'll listen it through when it pops up.)" but I just think their music was Pop ispired by Punk instead of actual Punk music.

Ska is a very convoluted conversation to get into, since there has been a lot of "Proto-ska" bands, but I really dig some of the punk ska combinations like Less than Jake and Citizen Fish. If you've never heard The Specials they're the grandsires of current ska, imho. Ghost Town is an awesome track, and Rudy.

the ramones, the descendents, the sex pistols and the clash (before they got too political) were exactly about diy music that was fun to see at a show and didn't take itself too seriously. these are probably the first actual punk bands if you're not, like, someone who insists on richard hell/ television/ etc

the next wave of punk - dk, suicidal tendencies, bad brains, etc, got really political and angry and angsty and whatever - they have their place - but it's not like this is the only legit punk music. i really don't care for this era of punk. IMO, the best thing that came out of punk in the 80s were the arty alt-rock post-punk like the talking heads and elvis costello and the pogues.

so then you have the 90s pop-punk stuff that is just kids making fun music and not taking themselves too seriously - just like the ramones and early clash - and suddenly they're considered not "real punk"?! it's ridiculous.

i'm not even sure i'd consider the velvet underground legit "punk" - though i like them a lot. they were an art-rock band bankrolled by andy warhol.

i do like the specials. really i think i like the early ska because it hadn't really settled into a distinct formula. one of my friends got super into ska in the 90s - he'd wear clothes with checkerboards on them and blast ska in his car all day every day - and it all kind of ran together to me.

The first four you mentioned weren't about having fun, but about either making money, or had a political ideology/nihilist/disenfranchisement with "the system" that they wished to express in art. It's kinda hard to characterize early punk shows as occurring just for a group to have fun; more having their voices/feelings heard.

There're a lotta precursors to punk (much like Rock & Roll and Jazz), and imho, the Velvet Underground was the closest. I can respect your not liking the same type of punk as me, but the pop punk of the 90s was much different than what was originally perceived to be so. Lets not even get started about the financial differences.

90s music can't really be discussed without talking about how MTV distorted the whole industry

Well hello there, Mr. Schneebly!

So It Goes · May 2013

Irond Will wrote: »

Hamurabi wrote: »

Honestly, music is yet another venue for people to define themselves through the practice of consumption.

you know, it used to seem really important to me

now i mostly just don't care

though i think it's kind of fun to talk about

like the other day frankie was shitting on justin bieber

and i was like

name one justin bieber song

she couldn't of course

but you know even if she could, there's nothing really wrong with what the kid is doing

which is making euphonic croony pop songs for teenage girls

(and pedophiles)

adults too! :bz

Thomamelas · May 2013

Dread Pirate Arbuthnot wrote: »

Thomamelas wrote: »

Hey Cass, have you thought about porting your game over to the new GMC rules?

yes i have but i get intimidated every time i open the pdf

You shouldn't. It's the nWoD rules you know...but better. The aspirations section alone is hot gaming sex. XP for RP without going nuts. Sane rules about buying new dots. Grappling rules that are actually good.

Penny Arcade

Ho! Ha ha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha! Thrust! [Chat]!

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