A Thread of A Series of Books of A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK AND TV SPOILERS HERE)

Shadowhope

Doodmann wrote: »

DrxLecter wrote: »

reVerse wrote: »

Be careful around the Interwebs until the latest episode airs. There are spoilers going on, spoilers of events that are not what is presented in the books. If you want to know what the other thread feels like whenever the plot advances, don't click on anything even slightly spoileriffic 'til you've watched the episode.

Complete speculation and nothing concrete but i'll spoil it just in case i'm right:

I bet this has something to do with Mel, Gendry, the brotherhood, leeches... I can't think of anything else that would stray too far from the books. I'm pretty interested to see this interaction and how they play it out in the show

I would actually be way on board with keeping in touch with the brotherhood.

Keeping in touch with the Brotherhood could mean a certain reveal at the end of S3 rather than S4, or it could occur early in S4. Like, the end of S04E01.

Doodmann

Shadowhope wrote: »

Doodmann wrote: »

DrxLecter wrote: »

reVerse wrote: »

Be careful around the Interwebs until the latest episode airs. There are spoilers going on, spoilers of events that are not what is presented in the books. If you want to know what the other thread feels like whenever the plot advances, don't click on anything even slightly spoileriffic 'til you've watched the episode.

Complete speculation and nothing concrete but i'll spoil it just in case i'm right:

I bet this has something to do with Mel, Gendry, the brotherhood, leeches... I can't think of anything else that would stray too far from the books. I'm pretty interested to see this interaction and how they play it out in the show

I would actually be way on board with keeping in touch with the brotherhood.

Keeping in touch with the Brotherhood could mean a certain reveal at the end of S3 rather than S4, or it could occur early in S4. Like, the end of S04E01.

Didn't even think of that. As much as we all revel in the reveal it would probably would work better for overall pacing though.

HeraldS

Doodmann wrote: »

Shadowhope wrote: »

Doodmann wrote: »

DrxLecter wrote: »

reVerse wrote: »

Be careful around the Interwebs until the latest episode airs. There are spoilers going on, spoilers of events that are not what is presented in the books. If you want to know what the other thread feels like whenever the plot advances, don't click on anything even slightly spoileriffic 'til you've watched the episode.

Complete speculation and nothing concrete but i'll spoil it just in case i'm right:

I bet this has something to do with Mel, Gendry, the brotherhood, leeches... I can't think of anything else that would stray too far from the books. I'm pretty interested to see this interaction and how they play it out in the show

I would actually be way on board with keeping in touch with the brotherhood.

Keeping in touch with the Brotherhood could mean a certain reveal at the end of S3 rather than S4, or it could occur early in S4. Like, the end of S04E01.

Didn't even think of that. As much as we all revel in the reveal it would probably would work better for overall pacing though.

They're in the same kinda bind with her as they are with Theon- gotta do something with them to keep them on staff and in the viewers minds, but fuck with the pacing too much relative to the books and you're just creating more problems. I'd like to see the reveal at the end of S4 just for the "wtf" factor, but who knows what they'll go with. Fun to watch either way.

Mike Danger

I saw the spoiler earlier because I played chicken with the Imgur album of screencaps going around and lost. It was a genuine surprise to me.

enlightenedbum

Mike Danger wrote: »

I saw the spoiler earlier because I played chicken with the Imgur album of screencaps going around and lost. It was a genuine surprise to me.

Me too.

knitdan

Been reading through AFFC again, for the first time since it was released. Now that I have some perspective on things it's much better than I remember. Also lots of little throwaway lines that may become important later.

AFFC spoilers

Doran Martell seems to have his personality dictated to him by his physical infirmities, or it may just be a clever parallel drawn by GRRM. Doran is so pained by gout that any movement makes it worse, so he does as little as possible, activity-wise. As ruler of Dorne, he is so afraid of the unknown that he refuses to take any action at all, preferring to sit back and wait. It remains to be seen if this is a wise strategy.

reVerse

I don't think that is an accurate description of Doran Martell at all. He's been rolling out his plan for vengeance ever since the Red Viper arrived to the capital to poison Tywin and kill the Mountain. What you're describing is how he wants his enemies to see him as.

knitdan

reVerse wrote: »

I don't think that is an accurate description of Doran Martell at all. He's been rolling out his plan for vengeance ever since the Red Viper arrived to the capital to poison Tywin and kill the Mountain. What you're describing is how he wants his enemies to see him as.

I'm only midway through the book, and after that ill read ADWD again, but so far I stand by my assessment. The Red Viper taking revenge was against Doran's orders, he just wanted him to get information, not get his stupid ass killed.

Psykoma

I agree with reVerse. Doran plays the long game, and he does actively pursue it while making himself appear lame to everyone not in on his plans (even people who aren't his enemies - like his daughter and the sand snakes)

reVerse

Well, on the show it was Joffrey who tried to get Tyrion killed.

Inquisitor77

I read Doran as a long-game player as well. He's had plans in motion that spanned decades, and has had to constantly update them based on events as they unfolded. It hasn't led to much yet, but it has also prevented Dorne from getting pulled into some pretty ridiculous situations (e.g., Robert's Rebellion and the War the of Five Kings).

The real problem seems to be that he's let his own family see his physical infirmities as weaknesses in a culture that clearly prides overt displays of prowess and ruthlessness over everything else. The Red Viper probably understood him for who he was, and that's why they worked well together for all those years (and why he kept the Sand Snakes in line).

I read the duel with the Mountain as an opportunity that was too good for Oberyn to pass up - he didn't plan on it, but without his brother present to hold him back he couldn't stop himself from seizing the chance to kill his sister's murderer.

reVerse

Yes, the whole trial by combat thing was obviously something they couldn't have planned on.

Dinner with Tywin Lannister on the other hand isn't the most difficult thing to accomplish for such a high lord.

Blendtec

I missed the first 10-15 minutes of tonights episode. If someone could hook me up with a brief rundown that'd be awesome. What I did see though, wow...

reVerse

Sam and Gilly by a fire in the night; Bran and crew in the forest, Osha and Meera don't get along, Bran gets all lordly, Jojen has a vision seizure; Jon Snuuh and wildlings preparing for climb and also romantic talk with Ygritte; Theon guesses wrong.

I think those were the first 10-15 minutes, though Arya's scenes (Gendry gets taken prisoner by the Red Woman, she sees a terrible darkness in Arya) might've been before Theon's fun happy adventures.

Of note in this episode: Melisandre says to Arya that they will meet again.

Tomanta

Holy. Shit.

Poor Roz! I know she had outlived her usefulness to the show, but that was just....

I don't particularly like the changes with Melisandre/Gendry but it was some nice scenes, especially the Arya foreshadowing, and if Gendry doesn't really have much of a role going forward in the books it won't break anything.

The acting on this show is just outstanding.

Also: the Theon stuff is really hard to watch. Which means it is working as intended.

Doodmann

welp there goes my theory.

Blendtec

Thanks. I turned it on as Jon was lacing up his ice climbers.

Litttlefingers speech at the end gave me chills, and they didn't go away until the credits finished. Such a perfect transition and cap to all that.

knitdan

Ok, I skipped ahead to the last Dorne chapter, and I agree that Doran is playing the long game...to an extent. I couldn't remember if Quentyn's little escapade to Meereen was part of the plan or not, but either way that end in disaster. And Doran's revealed plan for Arianne to wed Viserys seems absolutely ridiculous in hindsight. Even allowing that he had a plan for dealing with Tywin, it was made moot by Tyrion killing him.

Sometimes the world moves too fast for you when you're playing the long game.

Changing the subject, on Cersei

probably my favorite part about AFFC is the realization that Cersei may be somewhat clever and good at minor schemes, but long term, she's completely delusional about who she is and what kind of power she can truly expect to wield. A big part of this book involves "powerful" women being shown just how little power they hold.

Comradebot

Doran's playing the long game, but not doing a particularly good job of it. "Revenge" has always been the primary Martell motivation, but nearly anyone he could ever want revenge on is already dead. Which means Doran is either doing a real shit job of it, or he's actually in the long game to help seize some more power.

Or the idea of him actually plotting anything is all a red herring and he's just being smart and staying the fuck out of the bigger politics, and any action he takes may just be opportunistic more than part of some grand scheme.

Tamin

reVerse wrote: »

Sam and Gilly by a fire in the night; Bran and crew in the forest, Osha and Meera don't get along, Bran gets all lordly, Jojen has a vision seizure; Jon Snuuh and wildlings preparing for climb and also romantic talk with Ygritte; Theon guesses wrong.

I think those were the first 10-15 minutes, though Arya's scenes (Gendry gets taken prisoner by the Red Woman, she sees a terrible darkness in Arya) might've been before Theon's fun happy adventures.

Of note in this episode: Melisandre says to Arya that they will meet again.

was wondering if they were going to work in the "terrible darkness" line. It's not exactly what the dwarf prophet says, but it's pretty close.

enlightenedbum

Comradebot wrote: »

Doran's playing the long game, but not doing a particularly good job of it. "Revenge" has always been the primary Martell motivation, but nearly anyone he could ever want revenge on is already dead. Which means Doran is either doing a real shit job of it, or he's actually in the long game to help seize some more power.

Or the idea of him actually plotting anything is all a red herring and he's just being smart and staying the fuck out of the bigger politics, and any action he takes may just be opportunistic more than part of some grand scheme.

Doran and Olenna are the only sensible people in Westeros. Do nothing overt, ever. Well, also Varys, but he is a little more overt but a whole lot more smooth.

In other news, I'm 20 seconds into tonight's episode and would like to say: Samwell Tarly, Lady's Man.

Bobble

God damn.

Purple wedding might become a spontaneous national holiday at this point.

Someone give Littlefinger a curtain call because he's putting on quite a show.

Loved the Brotherhood scene this week. Thoros getting to talk about how it just kinda happened with Berric, Thoros and Mel talking, and most of all Mel doing some spooky foreshadowing with Arya.

Quite curious to see what happens with Loras.

enlightenedbum

There is so much goddamn flirting in this episode. And almost no one is good at it. Especially Tywin.

EDIT: Joffrey, of course, is the worst at it.

reVerse

That scene with Sansa and Loras was so... realistic.

Made me cringe.

ED!

That's twice Sansa's made the shit decision. Tsk.

I didn't like the Joffrey scene though. . .I mean he's just overt psychopath now. Which is fine, but not as I recall the book characterization.

The scene at The Wall made me want to vomit and affirms my desire to never ever go rock climbing. Ugh.

nexuscrawler

umm Joffery's not an overt psychopath?

In the books they introduce that crossbow of his when he starts shooting peasants for shits and giggles

Hachface

fucking littlefinger, man

Comradebot

ED! wrote: »

That's twice Sansa's made the shit decision. Tsk.

I didn't like the Joffrey scene though. . .I mean he's just overt psychopath now. Which is fine, but not as I recall the book characterization.

The scene at The Wall made me want to vomit and affirms my desire to never ever go rock climbing. Ugh.

uhhhh.... Which books were you reading?

reVerse

He also kills small animals, a classic (at least in Hollywood) childhood sign of socio/psychopathy.

enlightenedbum

reVerse wrote: »

He also kills small animals, a classic (at least in Hollywood) childhood sign of socio/psychopathy.

Also Bundy, no?

Comradebot

reVerse wrote: »

He also kills small animals, a classic (at least in Hollywood) childhood sign of socio/psychopathy.

Its a real sign.

ED!

I don't recall the peasant scene from the books. . .and I certainly don't recall the Ros scene being in there. There are any number of ways of communicating that he is a petty dickbag then having him shoot up hookers.

reVerse

Comradebot wrote: »

reVerse wrote: »

He also kills small animals, a classic (at least in Hollywood) childhood sign of socio/psychopathy.

Its a real sign.

Well there you go. I don't know much about psychiatry other than that the pills make me stop seeing dead people.

Hachface

ED! wrote: »

I don't recall the peasant scene from the books. . .and I certainly don't recall the Ros scene being in there. There are any number of ways of communicating that he is a petty dickbag then having him shoot up hookers.

but we had a hooker to shoot right there

reVerse

Ros isn't a character in the books so no, the scene wouldn't be in the books.

Derrick

I'm loving that "show only" people are finally starting to see the masterful side of Littlefinger. He's been my favorite character since the reveal of his motivation/realization was the duel with Ned's older brother.

enlightenedbum

Sepinwall wrote:

Walder Frey turns out to be more open to forgiving Robb than we might have expected — with a lot of help from Uncle Edmure — which means his plan to take Casterly Rock may not be a pipe dream, after all.

Oh, Alan. You are so fucked next month.

Hachface

enlightenedbum wrote: »

Sepinwall wrote:

Walder Frey turns out to be more open to forgiving Robb than we might have expected — with a lot of help from Uncle Edmure — which means his plan to take Casterly Rock may not be a pipe dream, after all.

Oh, Alan. You are so fucked next month.

Ahahahhaa

omg

this is going to be delicious

enlightenedbum

I appreciated them making Lame Lothar actually lame, even though it doesn't actually matter.

Tomanta

After reading Sepinwalls review... the Theon stuff is likely to drive viewers mad. I mean, they should know who has him now but there really is no 'why' or 'how' and it likely won't be until Season 5 until he gets to do anything except being tortured.