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A Thread of A Series of Books of A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK AND TV SPOILERS HERE)

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Posts

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Bubby wrote: »
    Yeah the people bitching about Theon's arc are dumb. I get being put off by the torture itself, but any GoT fan knows by now that every scene has a purpose. Might not be immediate, but it will come.

    Nope, those scenes are absolutely dumb. I know where they're going, they're still bad television.
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  • YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    I know what happens to Theon and even I don't anticipate his scenes being too interesting.
  • MalReynoldsMalReynolds The Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicines Registered User regular
    Wait, how do you guys know?
    "A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."

    "Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor


    My new novel:

    Maledictions: The Offering.

    Now in Paperback!
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    We read the fifth book.
    My cousin made this game: Gem Pop. It's legitimately fun, particularly for people who enjoy Bejewled, Dr. Mario, Tetris, etc. kinds of games. Only two bucks! If you try it out, PM me with what you think of it.
  • MalReynoldsMalReynolds The Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicines Registered User regular
    Oh, doy.

    Jesus, I'm tired.

    I was so very confused.
    "A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."

    "Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor


    My new novel:

    Maledictions: The Offering.

    Now in Paperback!
  • valiancevaliance Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Tamin wrote: »
    For my game of thrones tidbits, I generally read
    avclub - newbie and expert reviews
    televisionwithoutpity - reviews (less so now, because their recaps / reviews don't seem to show up in a reasonable amount of time)
    hitfix - alan sepinwall is show-only and that makes him fascinating
    this thread
    the tv thread
    se++ thread
    westeros.org - review / book to screen analysis. They generally whine about the changes while (in the same breath!) praising the show for getting such a large audience. They don't seem to understand that the one almost certainly helped the other.

    I dont read se++ or westeros or winteriscoming but I damn sure will now. thanks :^:
    I'd also add alyssa rosenberg to the list: http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2013/05/06/1965201/game-of-thrones-recap-the-climb/


    Leigh Butler is doing an unspoiled readthrough of ASOIAF: http://www.tor.com/features/series/a-read-of-ice-and-fire

    from her latest entry: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/05/a-read-of-ice-and-fire-a-storm-of-swords-part-27
    Also: so I guess this means the Hound and Arya might be crashing Edmure’s wedding?

    ZOMG.

    *weebles all over in anticipation*

    Though I should know better than to get my hopes up, shouldn’t I. But dammit, there had damn well better be at LEAST one Stark reunion in this book or I will seriously have to throw a hissy fit. Because COME ON. Throw me a frickin’ bone here, Martin. It will not destroy your street cred to have a mere one-fifth of Catelyn’s current crushing amount of grief lifted, I totally swear. Sheesh.

    delicious.

    also, from the show only thread:
    So Ygritte and Jon are really cute together and the whole plotline is getting increasingly sympathetic. Soooo... death countdown for her I guess. :( I totally called Gendry getting taken by the Red Priestess in this same fashion.

    My guesses (have not read the books at all):
    -Red Priestess burns Gendry to death. This creates something horrible that she unleashes on the wedding (the royal one, not Tyrion's) party. This may involve having sex with him (raping him basically) first.
    -Stannis will either let the Onion Knight escape with his daughter, or kill both of them. Could go either way honestly.
    -Arya will finally rejoin some other part of the cast as her group has been cut down to nothing. Alternatively, the Brotherhood is her new group and she'll be hanging with them longer than expected.
    -The disastrous wedding (which I expect to be episode 9) between Margarey and Joffrey will be a blood bath of some kind. Definitely will die: Joffrey. May die: Sansa, Margarey, one of the small council. Will probably be blamed for it and be in even further trouble: Tyrion. The reason for all the dying will be a sundering of the Lannister/Tyrell alliance or an attack from Robb or red magic.
    -Jon's plot will link up with a friendly character in an antagonistic way. He'll be forced into conflict with someone we like is what I mean basically.
    -Neither Brienne nor Jaime will die, but they will be split up from each other.
    -NO IDEA with Theon.

    oh so close. this is going to be so good.
    valiance on
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  • Peter EbelPeter Ebel Deus Vult! OsloRegistered User regular
    I don't know that I think they're absolutely dumb (not like Qarth dumb anyway), but I hope something changes in the next Theon scene. I can't deal with another torture for the sake of torture scene.

    Maybe Ramsay starts some shit with Bran. Bran and his gang could do with a bit of murder. Murder I can deal with!
    Fuck off and die.
  • ZephiranZephiran Registered User regular
    Game of Thones is basically composed of scenes of build-up within build-up, like a sort of build-up matryoshka doll. When you've studied the construction, the little nuances appearing in the progression become pleasant details that strike a resonating note of familiarity with the viewer, but to the untrained eye it all appears to approach limitless filler.

    RW oughta sort/ shock that right the fuck out straight however.
  • rizriz Registered User regular
    Peter Ebel wrote: »
    I don't know that I think they're absolutely dumb (not like Qarth dumb anyway), but I hope something changes in the next Theon scene. I can't deal with another torture for the sake of torture scene.

    Maybe Ramsay starts some shit with Bran. Bran and his gang could do with a bit of murder. Murder I can deal with!

    Maybe I'm just extremely desensitized to torture porn media (or secretly a sociopath!), but I really don't think of those scenes in terms of the physical torture. Sure, flaying is present, but it doesn't faze me, I don't think it's cool or scary or gross, it's just sort of a background element of the scene to me. But I love, love, LOVE the actual dialogue and psychological shit going on in those scenes. So, no, more please!
  • YarYar Registered User regular
    Peter Ebel wrote: »
    I don't know that I think they're absolutely dumb (not like Qarth dumb anyway), but I hope something changes in the next Theon scene. I can't deal with another torture for the sake of torture scene.

    Maybe Ramsay starts some shit with Bran. Bran and his gang could do with a bit of murder. Murder I can deal with!

    All this whining about Theon's torture is great because it's exactly how I felt reading it. I was like, "seriously, I need to read even more descriptions of torture?"
  • Peter EbelPeter Ebel Deus Vult! OsloRegistered User regular
    I liked the book torture. I'm inconsistent in my media likes and dislikes!
    Fuck off and die.
  • YarYar Registered User regular
    I definitely got annoyed a few times in several of the books with the rampant and seemingly unnecessary sexual and physical abuse, particularly of children.
  • BloodsheedBloodsheed Registered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    I think that the best part about this season with regards to the unspoiled is Tywin's letters. Some people are like "man, he just keeps writing letters. Every time you see him, a letter." And some people don't think anything of it. And some people think it's just to establish that he's not a garden-wandering type, nor is he the type to just stare at a throne, and that he doesn't really have friends he chats with - he's all business. And that group is starting to say "We get it, we get it, he's working hard to keep the realm in order." And some people are like "LOL, if he wants to win the war he should stop writing letters and actually do something."

    And a very small portion of those who've noticed that Tywin is writing letters all the time wonder what's in the letters? Those people are the best.

    And the absolute best part is that they've been explicitly told that "the contents of a man's letters are often worth far more than the contents of his purse." And Tywin has a big fuckin' purse.

    Wasn't that a from a Pratchett book regarding the partician? I'm 99% sure it was.
    But ye, Tywin is busy making diplomacy.

    Fitting, since Charles Dance, who plays Tywin, also played the patrician in the film/TV/live-action versions of the Discworld series.
    Xbox Live, Steam, PSN: Eclibull
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    One of the big things is that we get with Theon's PoV in book 5 is a lot of flashbacks and memories. He's thinking about his regrets and guilt over the Starks, he's right on the edge of being flat-out crazy... His internal narration does a TON of the work in those chapters, all while he's observing the other wedding plotting. That would be a lot harder to do in the TV format, so it helps a lot for the audience to get some small taste of how thoroughly he's getting broken down, and how much Ramsay gets inside his head. Obviously the writers were trying to put the audience in Theon's shoes with not having any idea what's going on, and it didn't really fully work out because lets face it, all these repeated Theon scenes where you have no idea what's going on except that Theon's getting tortured some more.... Ehh. Not exactly anyone's favorite scenes of the episode. But it will help in the long-term, Theon may still disappear for most of season 4 before finally popping back up, and 2 seasons of being gone would probably be far too much for the audience to remember what his deal was.
  • YarYar Registered User regular
    I think they should just show him being tortured every episode or two for the next couple seasons without revealing anything more than they already have. That would be lol.
  • YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    Then Ramsay dies choking on a piece of bread and his place in the narrative is taken by Locke.
  • YarYar Registered User regular
    Quick, someone post a spoiler in the TV thread that everyone on the show is dead because they all died in the crash.
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Behemoth wrote: »
    From the show thread:
    So Ygritte and Jon are really cute together and the whole plotline is getting increasingly sympathetic. Soooo... death countdown for her I guess. :( I totally called Gendry getting taken by the Red Priestess in this same fashion.

    My guesses (have not read the books at all):
    -Red Priestess burns Gendry to death. This creates something horrible that she unleashes on the wedding (the royal one, not Tyrion's) party. This may involve having sex with him (raping him basically) first.
    -Stannis will either let the Onion Knight escape with his daughter, or kill both of them. Could go either way honestly.
    -Arya will finally rejoin some other part of the cast as her group has been cut down to nothing. Alternatively, the Brotherhood is her new group and she'll be hanging with them longer than expected.
    -The disastrous wedding (which I expect to be episode 9) between Margarey and Joffrey will be a blood bath of some kind. Definitely will die: Joffrey. May die: Sansa, Margarey, one of the small council. Will probably be blamed for it and be in even further trouble: Tyrion. The reason for all the dying will be a sundering of the Lannister/Tyrell alliance or an attack from Robb or red magic.
    -Jon's plot will link up with a friendly character in an antagonistic way. He'll be forced into conflict with someone we like is what I mean basically.
    -Neither Brienne nor Jaime will die, but they will be split up from each other.
    -NO IDEA with Theon.

    I think the fact that someone could guess so far off the mark goes to show how well this show is written. People are going to be guessing right up until the RW, I think 8->

    I thought it was more awesome what he got right or how close he can be on something and still completely miss the mark. I love the show thread.
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    So Gendry replacing Edric Stormborn? Doesn't that screw stuff up a bit like book 6?
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  • BubbyBubby Registered User regular
    They're gearing up Ramsay to take Joff's place when he dies early on next year. That's what I see being the main point of Theon's scenes so far. They'll probably scale back the actual torture and just have that happen off-screen while Ramsay gives one of his many famously depraved monologues from the books.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Just Storm, and we really don't know. Presumably GRRM is consulting on these things so they can't fuck it up too badly.
    My cousin made this game: Gem Pop. It's legitimately fun, particularly for people who enjoy Bejewled, Dr. Mario, Tetris, etc. kinds of games. Only two bucks! If you try it out, PM me with what you think of it.
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    Bubby wrote: »
    I have no doubt they'll go full on with the Red Wedding now.

    The moment they start playing the Rains of Castamere..
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  • reVersereVerse The shadow's come to stay Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    So Gendry replacing Edric Stormborn? Doesn't that screw stuff up a bit like book 6?

    What does it screw up in book 6?
  • ZephiranZephiran Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    So Gendry replacing Edric Stormborn? Doesn't that screw stuff up a bit like book 6?

    Might be that they intend to roll the two characters into one? Gendry was bound to leave the Brotherhood eventually, this just means he'll be absent for other reasons.
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Just Storm, and we really don't know. Presumably GRRM is consulting on these things so they can't fuck it up too badly.
    I had to check to remind myself, but he's supposed to help Brienne vs the false hound and company. But then Rorge and Biter haven't really been on the show at all....

    ed
    Season 6 I should have said or book 4.
    PantsB on
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  • reVersereVerse The shadow's come to stay Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    Just Storm, and we really don't know. Presumably GRRM is consulting on these things so they can't fuck it up too badly.
    I had to check to remind myself, but he's supposed to help Brienne vs the false hound and company. But then Rorge and Biter haven't really been on the show at all....

    Any random person can fill that role.
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Just Storm, and we really don't know. Presumably GRRM is consulting on these things so they can't fuck it up too badly.
    I had to check to remind myself, but he's supposed to help Brienne vs the false hound and company. But then Rorge and Biter haven't really been on the show at all....

    Any random person can fill that role.

    I guess if we assume the Brienne knowing there's a Baratheon bastard has no impact
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  • ComradebotComradebot Lord of Dinosaurs Hunts Vegas, TXRegistered User regular
    Bubby wrote: »
    Yeah the people bitching about Theon's arc are dumb. I get being put off by the torture itself, but any GoT fan knows by now that every scene has a purpose. Might not be immediate, but it will come.

    I think most of the bitching tells me the show is pulling off exactly what they want with it. They just want Theon to be dead and for it to be over with almost as much as Theon surely does... but death won't come. Everyone wants to see him dead and feels he deserves it, and now the viewer will get to sit back and watch, week after week, as Theon gets dealt a fate many would argue is worse than the death he deserved (particularly if he does, in fact, get castrated... I've seen many a poll where men almost overwhelming say they'd rather die than live with their dicks cut off. Pretty sure I agree with em'.)

    And it was either this or go "Hey, remember Theon? Yeah, he actually didn't die a couple of years ago," and it's hard to ask an actor to ride the pine for two years and then explain what happened to him through the inner monologue that doesn't exist on the show.
  • LoserForHireXLoserForHireX Registered User regular
    riz wrote: »
    Peter Ebel wrote: »
    I don't know that I think they're absolutely dumb (not like Qarth dumb anyway), but I hope something changes in the next Theon scene. I can't deal with another torture for the sake of torture scene.

    Maybe Ramsay starts some shit with Bran. Bran and his gang could do with a bit of murder. Murder I can deal with!

    Maybe I'm just extremely desensitized to torture porn media (or secretly a sociopath!), but I really don't think of those scenes in terms of the physical torture. Sure, flaying is present, but it doesn't faze me, I don't think it's cool or scary or gross, it's just sort of a background element of the scene to me. But I love, love, LOVE the actual dialogue and psychological shit going on in those scenes. So, no, more please!

    I have to say that I'm loving Ramsay. I want to see that guy do more and more fucked up things. Every bit of dialogue in this last week's episode was perfect from him.
    "The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde

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  • ComradebotComradebot Lord of Dinosaurs Hunts Vegas, TXRegistered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    So Gendry replacing Edric Stormborn? Doesn't that screw stuff up a bit like book 6?

    What does it screw up in book 6?

    I think he meant book four, where Gendry ends up shankin' some bitches.
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 a.k.a. Nubmonger, 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion Oakland, CARegistered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    I think that the best part about this season with regards to the unspoiled is Tywin's letters. Some people are like "man, he just keeps writing letters. Every time you see him, a letter." And some people don't think anything of it. And some people think it's just to establish that he's not a garden-wandering type, nor is he the type to just stare at a throne, and that he doesn't really have friends he chats with - he's all business. And that group is starting to say "We get it, we get it, he's working hard to keep the realm in order." And some people are like "LOL, if he wants to win the war he should stop writing letters and actually do something."

    And a very small portion of those who've noticed that Tywin is writing letters all the time wonder what's in the letters? Those people are the best.

    And the absolute best part is that they've been explicitly told that "the contents of a man's letters are often worth far more than the contents of his purse." And Tywin has a big fuckin' purse.

    Wasn't that a from a Pratchett book regarding the partician? I'm 99% sure it was.
    But ye, Tywin is busy making diplomacy.

    It's an old line, but in the show it's from Varys, when he tells his origin story to Tyrion.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Davos could just smuggle him back to a conveniently placed inn or whatever.
    My cousin made this game: Gem Pop. It's legitimately fun, particularly for people who enjoy Bejewled, Dr. Mario, Tetris, etc. kinds of games. Only two bucks! If you try it out, PM me with what you think of it.
  • reVersereVerse The shadow's come to stay Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Just Storm, and we really don't know. Presumably GRRM is consulting on these things so they can't fuck it up too badly.
    I had to check to remind myself, but he's supposed to help Brienne vs the false hound and company. But then Rorge and Biter haven't really been on the show at all....

    Any random person can fill that role.

    I guess if we assume the Brienne knowing there's a Baratheon bastard has no impact

    All she knows is that this kid looks a lot like Renly. She has absolutely zero reason to suspect that they're actually related.
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Just Storm, and we really don't know. Presumably GRRM is consulting on these things so they can't fuck it up too badly.
    I had to check to remind myself, but he's supposed to help Brienne vs the false hound and company. But then Rorge and Biter haven't really been on the show at all....

    Any random person can fill that role.

    I guess if we assume the Brienne knowing there's a Baratheon bastard has no impact

    All she knows is that this kid looks a lot like Renly. She has absolutely zero reason to suspect that they're actually related.

    That's pretty much all Ned needed. And hell there's be some irony if Lady Stoneheart ended up using a bastard as a figurehead
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Ned also had a giant book of marriage histories.
    enlightenedbum on
    My cousin made this game: Gem Pop. It's legitimately fun, particularly for people who enjoy Bejewled, Dr. Mario, Tetris, etc. kinds of games. Only two bucks! If you try it out, PM me with what you think of it.
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    reVerse wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Just Storm, and we really don't know. Presumably GRRM is consulting on these things so they can't fuck it up too badly.
    I had to check to remind myself, but he's supposed to help Brienne vs the false hound and company. But then Rorge and Biter haven't really been on the show at all....

    Any random person can fill that role.
    Brienne can even fill it herself. As I assume they're cutting out the showdown with Shagwell and Co, this would be her only chance to shine in combat* for the rest of her known character arc.

    e: Against a human. Not that I'm endorsing Shagwell as 'human'.
    ArbitraryDescriptor on
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  • reVersereVerse The shadow's come to stay Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Just Storm, and we really don't know. Presumably GRRM is consulting on these things so they can't fuck it up too badly.
    I had to check to remind myself, but he's supposed to help Brienne vs the false hound and company. But then Rorge and Biter haven't really been on the show at all....

    Any random person can fill that role.

    I guess if we assume the Brienne knowing there's a Baratheon bastard has no impact

    All she knows is that this kid looks a lot like Renly. She has absolutely zero reason to suspect that they're actually related.

    That's pretty much all Ned needed.

    Ned knew that Gendry was important before meeting him. Brienne has no reason to think that Gendry is anyone important.
  • ComradebotComradebot Lord of Dinosaurs Hunts Vegas, TXRegistered User regular
    Ned also had a giant book of marriage histories.

    That too, and I'd say primarily. The entire history of the Baratheon family has dark haired Baratheons marrying blonde women and producing only more dark haired kids. And, suddenly, three Baratheon kids are born blonde of hair.

    A bunch of bastards looking like Robert moreso than his "actual kids" is one thing, but for "his" kids to be the exception to a rule that's been the case for the entire recorded history of the family...
  • YarYar Registered User regular
    I always wondered about that, though. Absent some scientific evidence about recessive genetics, couldn't Cersei just say, "well, no Boratheon ever married a Lioness with a womb as powerful as Cersei Lannister's!" I mean, "the seed is strong" kinda opens itself up for its own counter-argument.
  • reVersereVerse The shadow's come to stay Registered User regular
    Yar wrote: »
    I always wondered about that, though. Absent some scientific evidence about recessive genetics, couldn't Cersei just say, "well, no Boratheon ever married a Lioness with a womb as powerful as Cersei Lannister's!" I mean, "the seed is strong" kinda opens itself up for its own counter-argument.

    She could say that.

    But it's a patriarchy. Women are inferior.
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