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A Thread of A Series of Books of A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK AND TV SPOILERS HERE)

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  • MadpoetMadpoet Registered User regular
    I somewhat wonder if she'll be at a disadvantage for her cheating, since she was supposed to have developed the ability to fight blind, which she only has in the presence of kitty cats.
    Then again... if she learns to see through her victim's eyes, that would be an interesting trick.
  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    All caught up. king Twatfery arrowing up roz will not stand, he needs to go down. Little finger being an ass.. one wonders what the main event we are building toward this season will be?

    *mad cackle*

    edit:
    well right now the threat to Bran and Rickon is a bit vague really, but as they get closer to the Wall its only a matter of time before they find themselves in a fairly desperate situation. now imagine how much worse it would be to know that they're caught between wildlings, treacherous crows, White Walkers with their zombie army and a sadist who could teach Joffrey a thing or two.

    This makes me really happy, because it reminded me that Bran will be meeting up with Sam and Coldhands soon. Maybe not until next season (early), but he's creeping that way.

    Tamin on
  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Comradebot wrote: »
    Though, speaking of Theon... can't believe no one has brought up yet that Ramsay woke him with the horn. It's foreshadowing that, in season seven/Winds of Winter, Theon is going to kill Ramsay.

    Oh god that made me crack up but then I forgot all about it due to the awesomeness of Iwan Rheon. I'm starting to go back on my assessment that he's not too attractive to play Ramsay though. He is a bit off and creepy-looking but he's also not unattractive enough. I don't want to like Ramsay Bolton, but... I kinda do. Damn it. He is killing it though. So good.

    Unrelated best bit, though: the hand-acting during the Jaime/Brienne/Roose scene. Amazing.
    riz on
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 a.k.a. Nubmonger, 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion Oakland, CARegistered User regular
    I'm not sure that it's out of the question that they weren't trying to train her warging ability to begin with.

    He's called the Many-Faced God, after all...
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no.
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    Madpoet wrote: »
    I somewhat wonder if she'll be at a disadvantage for her cheating, since she was supposed to have developed the ability to fight blind, which she only has in the presence of kitty cats.
    Then again... if she learns to see through her victim's eyes, that would be an interesting trick.
    While he's fucking with her he talks about using your other senses and shit, but her actual 'test' is the next morning when she identifies him as one of the three things she learned. I imagine the logic was: If she could fight back back blind, great, but she learned his identity instead. A fair fight seems like the very last thing a good FM should attempt, and even if she could track him with her other senses as if she could see, she still couldn't have bested him. Instead, she learned his identity, and with that information she could track him and kill him in her own time, and on her own terms. That seems like the more valuable lesson. Information is power, and so on.

    We know Jaquen was good at killing people, and presume he could handle himself in a fight, but we never actually see him fight fair. Information and deceit (and little poison) seem to be his preferred tools.
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  • shrykeshryke Registered User regular
    I'm not sure that it's out of the question that they weren't trying to train her warging ability to begin with.

    He's called the Many-Faced God, after all...

    Nah, I think this is another thing like her hiding the sword. She's learning from the Faceless Men, but she's not becoming one.
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Madpoet wrote: »
    I somewhat wonder if she'll be at a disadvantage for her cheating, since she was supposed to have developed the ability to fight blind, which she only has in the presence of kitty cats.
    Then again... if she learns to see through her victim's eyes, that would be an interesting trick.

    That, plus how often would fighting totally blind really come up (unless she orchestrated it, but I can't imagine even the Faceless Men prefer it) . Warging would be much more handy. Can still always practice blind fighting, too.
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I'm not sure that it's out of the question that they weren't trying to train her warging ability to begin with.

    He's called the Many-Faced God, after all...

    Nah, I think this is another thing like her hiding the sword. She's learning from the Faceless Men, but she's not becoming one.

    They seem to realize it too. The old man keeps telling her shes a liar when she says sh's no one
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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Madpoet wrote: »
    I somewhat wonder if she'll be at a disadvantage for her cheating, since she was supposed to have developed the ability to fight blind, which she only has in the presence of kitty cats.
    Then again... if she learns to see through her victim's eyes, that would be an interesting trick.

    That, plus how often would fighting totally blind really come up (unless she orchestrated it, but I can't imagine even the Faceless Men prefer it) . Warging would be much more handy. Can still always practice blind fighting, too.

    In Game of Thrones/Fire and Ice it's best to be prepared for anything.
    Harry Dresden on
  • BehemothBehemoth Registered User regular
    From the show thread:
    So Ygritte and Jon are really cute together and the whole plotline is getting increasingly sympathetic. Soooo... death countdown for her I guess. :( I totally called Gendry getting taken by the Red Priestess in this same fashion.

    My guesses (have not read the books at all):
    -Red Priestess burns Gendry to death. This creates something horrible that she unleashes on the wedding (the royal one, not Tyrion's) party. This may involve having sex with him (raping him basically) first.
    -Stannis will either let the Onion Knight escape with his daughter, or kill both of them. Could go either way honestly.
    -Arya will finally rejoin some other part of the cast as her group has been cut down to nothing. Alternatively, the Brotherhood is her new group and she'll be hanging with them longer than expected.
    -The disastrous wedding (which I expect to be episode 9) between Margarey and Joffrey will be a blood bath of some kind. Definitely will die: Joffrey. May die: Sansa, Margarey, one of the small council. Will probably be blamed for it and be in even further trouble: Tyrion. The reason for all the dying will be a sundering of the Lannister/Tyrell alliance or an attack from Robb or red magic.
    -Jon's plot will link up with a friendly character in an antagonistic way. He'll be forced into conflict with someone we like is what I mean basically.
    -Neither Brienne nor Jaime will die, but they will be split up from each other.
    -NO IDEA with Theon.

    I think the fact that someone could guess so far off the mark goes to show how well this show is written. People are going to be guessing right up until the RW, I think 8->
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  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    This show is turning me into a sadist. First thing I will check after THAT EPISODE will be the no-books thread, with a big grin on my face.
    Loren Michael on
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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 a.k.a. Nubmonger, 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion Oakland, CARegistered User regular
    Besides the thread here, are there any other places you guys check regularly that has "show-only" discussion?

    Not because I want to lurk there or anything...but for...um...science.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Sepinwall's reviews are show only. They're at Hitfix. The TWOP forums has a show only speculation thread and the episode threads are now supposed to be book free, though there's no ban on intermingling so some of those will be people being amused by the reactions.

    I think there's a non-book SA thread like ours, but not sure.
    My cousin made this game: Gem Pop. It's legitimately fun, particularly for people who enjoy Bejewled, Dr. Mario, Tetris, etc. kinds of games. Only two bucks! If you try it out, PM me with what you think of it.
  • BubbyBubby Registered User regular
    Behemoth wrote: »
    From the show thread:
    So Ygritte and Jon are really cute together and the whole plotline is getting increasingly sympathetic. Soooo... death countdown for her I guess. :( I totally called Gendry getting taken by the Red Priestess in this same fashion.

    My guesses (have not read the books at all):
    -Red Priestess burns Gendry to death. This creates something horrible that she unleashes on the wedding (the royal one, not Tyrion's) party. This may involve having sex with him (raping him basically) first.
    -Stannis will either let the Onion Knight escape with his daughter, or kill both of them. Could go either way honestly.
    -Arya will finally rejoin some other part of the cast as her group has been cut down to nothing. Alternatively, the Brotherhood is her new group and she'll be hanging with them longer than expected.
    -The disastrous wedding (which I expect to be episode 9) between Margarey and Joffrey will be a blood bath of some kind. Definitely will die: Joffrey. May die: Sansa, Margarey, one of the small council. Will probably be blamed for it and be in even further trouble: Tyrion. The reason for all the dying will be a sundering of the Lannister/Tyrell alliance or an attack from Robb or red magic.
    -Jon's plot will link up with a friendly character in an antagonistic way. He'll be forced into conflict with someone we like is what I mean basically.
    -Neither Brienne nor Jaime will die, but they will be split up from each other.
    -NO IDEA with Theon.

    I think the fact that someone could guess so far off the mark goes to show how well this show is written. People are going to be guessing right up until the RW, I think 8->

    I laughed really hard at his Episode 9 predictions. Oh boy is he going to be upset.
  • BehemothBehemoth Registered User regular
    Besides the thread here, are there any other places you guys check regularly that has "show-only" discussion?

    Not because I want to lurk there or anything...but for...um...science.

    SA has two threads just like here, and the AV Club actually has two reviews for each episode. One for "newbies" and one for "experts". It's fun to read the comments on the newbies one.
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  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    For my game of thrones tidbits, I generally read
    avclub - newbie and expert reviews
    televisionwithoutpity - reviews (less so now, because their recaps / reviews don't seem to show up in a reasonable amount of time)
    hitfix - alan sepinwall is show-only and that makes him fascinating
    this thread
    the tv thread
    se++ thread
    westeros.org - review / book to screen analysis. They generally whine about the changes while (in the same breath!) praising the show for getting such a large audience. They don't seem to understand that the one almost certainly helped the other.
  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    winteriscoming.net also has a newbie and a book reader review.
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  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    ooh, I shall add them to the list. Excellent.
  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Registered User regular
    Question about Theon.

    Isn't he suppose to be flayed by now? I'm pretty sure I didn't read anything about him being torture like this in the books.
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  • HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    Question about Theon.

    Isn't he suppose to be flayed by now? I'm pretty sure I didn't read anything about him being torture like this in the books.

    It was never directly said what happened to him. It's basically implied that we underwent horrific torture (including castration) and lost his identity (and much of his usable body parts). GRRM didn't describe it in detail (would have taken away too many pages from describing food, whores, and Daario's magnificent blue--bluuurgh)
  • rizriz Registered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    And some people are like "LOL, if he wants to win the war he should stop writing letters and actually do something."

    Ha, love it.
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    It's very well done since its about as light a touch as it was in the books. Present but not obviously foreshadowing anything. the show has gone overboard with foreshadowing a few times so i appreciate the restraint.
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  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    Creeping concern: If The Husband to Bears is going over the wall, is he going to die in that Then guy's place?

    Because D:
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  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    Question about Theon.

    Isn't he suppose to be flayed by now? I'm pretty sure I didn't read anything about him being torture like this in the books.

    It was never directly said what happened to him. It's basically implied that we underwent horrific torture (including castration) and lost his identity (and much of his usable body parts). GRRM didn't describe it in detail (would have taken away too many pages from describing food, whores, and Daario's magnificent blue--bluuurgh)

    Food is good to talk about, whores I don't remember much mention of beyond Tyrion's catchphrase, the blue beard OK, I know that unfloats your boat.

    But why would you want to replace those things with graphic torture descriptions?
    poshniallo on
    Neal Stephenson wrote:
    It was, of course, nothing more than sexism, the especially virulent type espoused by male techies who sincerely believe that they are too smart to be sexists.
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    Varys is never a POV character, right? That's what I would like to have added.

    Of course, we never will have a Varys or Littlefinger POV until they reveal their Cunning Plans.
    Neal Stephenson wrote:
    It was, of course, nothing more than sexism, the especially virulent type espoused by male techies who sincerely believe that they are too smart to be sexists.
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    I vastly preferred the book's way of handling Theon and not knowing he was alive until you meet him again in Book 5 and holy shit what the fuck happened to him
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  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    I prefer not knowing Varys' schemes, but I would love a glimpse inside his head just once. Maybe in the last book, or as an epilogue ending in his death.
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  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    I like the divergences from the book, because, save for the slightly different character mix and occasionally truncated plot, the two can largely serve to inform each other given that we know they're sharing the same overarching story.
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  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    I think that the best part about this season with regards to the unspoiled is Tywin's letters. Some people are like "man, he just keeps writing letters. Every time you see him, a letter." And some people don't think anything of it. And some people think it's just to establish that he's not a garden-wandering type, nor is he the type to just stare at a throne, and that he doesn't really have friends he chats with - he's all business. And that group is starting to say "We get it, we get it, he's working hard to keep the realm in order." And some people are like "LOL, if he wants to win the war he should stop writing letters and actually do something."

    And a very small portion of those who've noticed that Tywin is writing letters all the time wonder what's in the letters? Those people are the best.

    And the absolute best part is that they've been explicitly told that "the contents of a man's letters are often worth far more than the contents of his purse." And Tywin has a big fuckin' purse.
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  • jimb213jimb213 Registered User regular
    You can say this about literally anything on any show. "Sure it seems stupid/pointless/repetitive now, but maybe it will turn out to be clever/important/masterfully plotted, and we'll all love it as soon as we get to the masterful reveal later in the season!" Well, yeah, maybe. Anything's possible. I wouldn't count on it, thought.
    Okay this is getting infuriating. Have some of the show thread people actually seen the show? There's been multi-episode/season-long buildup and payoff every season. At this point, I just can't comprehend the "pfft. there's no way this is relevant or will pay off in any way" attitude.
  • BubbyBubby Registered User regular
    Yeah the people bitching about Theon's arc are dumb. I get being put off by the torture itself, but any GoT fan knows by now that every scene has a purpose. Might not be immediate, but it will come.
  • YarYar Registered User regular
    All these being reasons why I believe that, even with the Faceless, 'Arry is just trying to get what she can get and then move on when it no longer suits her. I mean, she never learned to be a 100% waterdancer either. She's picking up what she can but I don't think her destiny is to be completely loyal or adherent to anything except her family. I'm sure she learned plenty getting beat up while blind, I don't think she needed to prove it on their terms.
  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    Well, to be fair, she didn't learn to be a waterdancer because her whole family was murdered before she had a chance.
    Rich on Beer - I talk about drinking beer. You read about it.
  • override367override367 Registered User regular
    Bubby wrote: »
    Yeah the people bitching about Theon's arc are dumb. I get being put off by the torture itself, but any GoT fan knows by now that every scene has a purpose. Might not be immediate, but it will come.

    im surprised not everyone's gotten that it's house bolton, the flayed man, and the flaying post is on their sigil
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Registered User regular
    I really want Theon to call Ramsey a bastard, and Ramsey to just go off on him.
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  • rizriz Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Creeping concern: If The Husband to Bears is going over the wall, is he going to die in that Then guy's place?

    Because D:

    I was wondering this too! He is basically not even Tormund in the show, outside of his appearance. He's so gruff and never really makes jokes or anything. Not sure what the point of rolling them together is if they're not going to preserve his personality.

    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    I vastly preferred the book's way of handling Theon and not knowing he was alive until you meet him again in Book 5 and holy shit what the fuck happened to him

    Heh, I hate spoilers but I also cannot help myself from flipping through each book to see who's getting POV chapters before I begin them. When I first flipped through and saw "Reek" I was like what the fuck, are you serious, that guy, etc. Little did I know...
    riz on
  • shrykeshryke Registered User regular
    jimb213 wrote: »
    You can say this about literally anything on any show. "Sure it seems stupid/pointless/repetitive now, but maybe it will turn out to be clever/important/masterfully plotted, and we'll all love it as soon as we get to the masterful reveal later in the season!" Well, yeah, maybe. Anything's possible. I wouldn't count on it, thought.
    Okay this is getting infuriating. Have some of the show thread people actually seen the show? There's been multi-episode/season-long buildup and payoff every season. At this point, I just can't comprehend the "pfft. there's no way this is relevant or will pay off in any way" attitude.

    You are talking on the internet about ASOIAF with others and haven't yet gotten used to the fact that a bunch of people are just silly, whingy geese?
  • Captain TragedyCaptain Tragedy Registered User regular
    I can kinda understand it, coming from just the TV show perspective, because people have been burned by heavily serialized long-running TV shows with plot threads not paying off and/or just left dangling (Lost, BSG, etc.). Of course, most of those shows were revealed by the showrunners over time to be pretty much made up on the fly, while this based on a book series (though one that isn't complete yet).

    I get tired of the extreme level of pessimism some people have - "it could pay off, but I'm just going to assume it's not, so this plot line sucks". I feel like the show has earned at least some benefit of the doubt.

    And ultimately, if you're the type of person whose enjoyment about what is currently happening is crippled by the idea that the payoff could possibly not be fulfilling to you and/or take a while to get there, it seems like you're just going to be perpetually miserable about the show. That element of the show is what it is, and it's not going to change.
  • Drunken BastardDrunken Bastard Registered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    I think that the best part about this season with regards to the unspoiled is Tywin's letters. Some people are like "man, he just keeps writing letters. Every time you see him, a letter." And some people don't think anything of it. And some people think it's just to establish that he's not a garden-wandering type, nor is he the type to just stare at a throne, and that he doesn't really have friends he chats with - he's all business. And that group is starting to say "We get it, we get it, he's working hard to keep the realm in order." And some people are like "LOL, if he wants to win the war he should stop writing letters and actually do something."

    And a very small portion of those who've noticed that Tywin is writing letters all the time wonder what's in the letters? Those people are the best.

    And the absolute best part is that they've been explicitly told that "the contents of a man's letters are often worth far more than the contents of his purse." And Tywin has a big fuckin' purse.

    Wasn't that a from a Pratchett book regarding the partician? I'm 99% sure it was.
    But ye, Tywin is busy making diplomacy.

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