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Universal Studio's new film in November: Ender's Game

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Posts

  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    They already made that movie though it's called Toys
    jBEKRTH.png
  • sarukunsarukun Carl Edgar Blake II Nerd-King of BaconRegistered User regular
    edited May 2013
    I confess, the first time I read Ender's Game I didn't get the impression that it was "okay" because "he didn't mean to"

    but this is probably influenced by the fact that the story basically ended immediately after the event, and I have read none of the sequels, so the ending struck me as far more tragic, and seemed to be a commentary on the moral cowardice of the top brass.

    I guess in retrospect that does sort of give Ender an implicit "pass", and it doesn't really address the obvious next step, which is "what becomes of a person who does this sort of thing", and apparently the answer posed by the sequels is "He's actually a pretty great guy because he didn't mean to"?
    sarukun on
  • AneurhythmiaAneurhythmia Registered User regular
    But seriously, the implausible part is that the Drone Live Link DLC would be given to anyone. That shit would be 1400 America's Army Points.
    HlDUfm7.png
  • MachwingMachwing grown ass man Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    sarukun wrote: »
    I confess, the first time I read Ender's Game I didn't get the impression that it was "okay" because "he didn't mean to"

    but this is probably influenced by the fact that the story basically ended immediately after the event, and I have read none of the sequels, so the ending struck me as far more tragic, and seemed to be a commentary on the moral cowardice of the top brass.

    I guess in retrospect that does sort of give Ender an implicit "pass", and it doesn't really address the obvious next step, which is "what becomes of a person who does this sort of thing", and apparently the answer posed by the sequels is "He's actually a pretty great guy because he didn't mean to"?

    I have read none of the sequels, either! In fact, I really liked the book when I read it.

    However, as I think about it now, I realize that Card intended for Ender's powerlessness over his own fate to be some sort of redeeming trait. I think that's why the book appeals to young teens, particularly; Ender is a victim of circumstance. He's a dirty tool in the hands of awful men, but he's incapable of changing things, and thus, (morally) "clean."

    The thing is, Card's fictional world is tailor-made to convince us that Ender is powerless to act differently. In reality, everybody has at least enough control over their own actions to be responsible for them. Maybe not a young child, but there's a reason we don't have young children controlling our armies.

    I would never call Card a Hitler apologist, but I think the book allows for a certain world philosophy where a person can say, "I can't change things, therefore I am absolved of my actions." when what they mean is, "I am uncomfortable with changing things, therefore I am absolved of my actions."
    Machwing on
    hello
  • rfilyawrfilyaw Registered User regular
    Uriel wrote: »
    I think I'd rather see that movie with will Smith and his kid.

    man I dont care how shit it is, I love both Will and Jaden. I'm psyched for After Earth
  • MachwingMachwing grown ass man Registered User regular
    Orson Scott Card might as well have written Ender's Game as a single page pamphlet with the words "IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT." in big 72-point type.
    hello
  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    Machwing wrote: »
    Orson Scott Card might as well have written Ender's Game as a single page pamphlet with the words "IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT." in big 72-point type.

    But not in the nice, Good Will Hunting way.
  • MachwingMachwing grown ass man Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    at the bottom of the page, in 3-point font












    (Even if it was genocide)
    Machwing on
    hello
  • LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    I haven't read any of these, but I thought the later books revolved around the main character being disgusted by the result of the first? I'm confused to how that's tacit approval.

    Like, doesn't he
    switch sides and help the aliens
    PoQ0cUz.jpg
  • MachwingMachwing grown ass man Registered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    I haven't read any of these, but I thought the later books revolved around the main character being disgusted by the result of the first? I'm confused to how that's tacit approval.

    Like, doesn't he
    switch sides and help the aliens

    From what I've read, Card writes it such that the reader is supposed to say, 'aw, Ender, you're being too hard on yourself!"

    which is bulllll-sheeeiiit
    hello
  • SirEtchwartsSirEtchwarts Edward Kenway's yer man. Arg, Swashbuckle, Avast, etc.Registered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »
    I think it would take the Ender's Game premise and bring it into present, with the government releasing a drone strike game for free. Then the top-rated players would be given special DLC ...

    This was a thing in Iron Man comics, kinda.
    acblackflag.jpg
  • SnorkSnork Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Langly wrote: »
    I haven't read any of these, but I thought the later books revolved around the main character being disgusted by the result of the first? I'm confused to how that's tacit approval.

    Like, doesn't he
    switch sides and help the aliens
    Kind of? One of the earlier articles addresses this and dissects in a pretty thorough way, but what I remember happening is this:
    after genociding all the buggers, ender wanders the galaxy and feels super bad about it for a long time. then he anonymously publishes a book about how great the buggers were or something which causes public opinion to drastically turn against the xenocide and ender is generally thought of as a monster after that. he then eventually does resurrect the race in some outrageously contrived fashion, but i don't really remember the consequences of that because holy FUCK those books go off the rails insane towards the end.
    while when i was 12 i found this to be one of my favorite parts of the book (the fact that he exalts their culture as penance for destroying it) the criticism posted earlier in the thread makes the specific point that the only more heinous thing than obliterating and silencing an entire culture is to then take advantage of it to fill the silence with your version of the deceased. and while i would say that is certainly not how the acts are painted in the book, it is pretty definitively what happens and i find the idea itself to be pretty problematic.

    also i feel like it should be said that while there is definitely some weird shit going on between valentine and ender that even at age 11 i picked up on, i don't think the 'naming the aliens buggers = sex' thing really holds water specifically because card is american, the characters are american and it's one of those terms that really does not have ANY of the same connotations across the pond. i grew up hearing bugger as a noun describing tiny, cute or annoying things with a someone teasing tone. it is also a very obvious slang for an insectoid race- i had no idea it was even a british term until MUCH later, didn't realize it functioned as a verb until later than that, and (this might be embarassing? idk if this is everyone's experience) didn't even find out it is an overtly sexual term ( i think it means sodomy or something?) until i was like 20.
    Snork on
  • sarukunsarukun Carl Edgar Blake II Nerd-King of BaconRegistered User regular
    Machwing wrote: »
    sarukun wrote: »
    I confess, the first time I read Ender's Game I didn't get the impression that it was "okay" because "he didn't mean to"

    but this is probably influenced by the fact that the story basically ended immediately after the event, and I have read none of the sequels, so the ending struck me as far more tragic, and seemed to be a commentary on the moral cowardice of the top brass.

    I guess in retrospect that does sort of give Ender an implicit "pass", and it doesn't really address the obvious next step, which is "what becomes of a person who does this sort of thing", and apparently the answer posed by the sequels is "He's actually a pretty great guy because he didn't mean to"?

    I have read none of the sequels, either! In fact, I really liked the book when I read it.

    However, as I think about it now, I realize that Card intended for Ender's powerlessness over his own fate to be some sort of redeeming trait. I think that's why the book appeals to young teens, particularly; Ender is a victim of circumstance. He's a dirty tool in the hands of awful men, but he's incapable of changing things, and thus, (morally) "clean."

    The thing is, Card's fictional world is tailor-made to convince us that Ender is powerless to act differently. In reality, everybody has at least enough control over their own actions to be responsible for them. Maybe not a young child, but there's a reason we don't have young children controlling our armies.

    I would never call Card a Hitler apologist, but I think the book allows for a certain world philosophy where a person can say, "I can't change things, therefore I am absolved of my actions." when what they mean is, "I am uncomfortable with changing things, therefore I am absolved of my actions."

    That seems like a reading that could be supported by the text. I don't have a problem with characters being victim of circumstance per se, though when coupled with the point made earlier about him killing the boy in the shower, I think you're right that the author seems to be giving him carte blanche to do a lot of stuff that would be otherwise morally ambiguous and not having him really pay the consequences or have to deal with it.

    I kind of always thought that ending the book where it did sort of side-stepped the whole problem of "what does something like this do to a person", which felt like a cop out.
  • MarthMarth Sad Schaub Registered User regular
    I dug Ender's Game when I read it in high school. But I know what a silly goose Card is, so I won't see the movie in theaters. Thankfully it's not one of my must-see movies this year.
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    .
    wandering wrote: »
    Dichotomy wrote: »
    what?
    I'm saying I think negativity about OSC's work will go down when he dies, which will be nice for me because I enjoy his work. I think that happened when Michael Jackson died - people didn't really care about the pedophilia thing so much anymore and were more likely to talk about how much they enjoyed his work.

    People talk about Ender's Game having all these sinister messages and I don't really buy it - I think it's a novel about empathy and understanding. Peter seems like an awful bully but then the book shows you he's not this two dimensional villain - he's a human like anyone else -
    the buggers seem evil but then you come to understand them too. I don't think the good guys commit genocide because OSC thinks genocide is awesome but because it's a book about how even people who commit genocide are human.

    Just a helpful reminder that every character in Ender's Game is two-dimensional, not just the villain

    Also, "genocidal people are human too" is a really, really gross message. Like, really gross. Mega gross. To the max. And a weird one to put in a book where the kids' dialogue is, like, sixty percent talking about farts.

    look man

    you got something to say, say it to my face
    PiptheFair on
    STEAM
    Skayel wrote:
    One time, I had a friend over to play a bit of Red Alert on my LAN. During the game he said he needed to go to the bathroom, so we paused it. After about 10 minutes of wondering where the hell he went, I get up and go to check on him.

    Turns out he was trying to screw my dog.
    Once I was taking a poop at a restaurant and a kid crept underneath the door into my stall. I let out a big fart and then he threw up all over the floor in front of me and I just stared at him.
  • LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    I mean I think one of the scariest truths is that given the right circumstances and/or upbringing, anyone could do that. It's incredibly easy to shove that aside and think you'd be better, but that's just probably not the case.

    Killing and defense of tribe is just an indelible human trait that I don't think we'll ever be rid of. I don't think pretending that isn't the case is very helpful
    PoQ0cUz.jpg
  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Registered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    I mean

    It's a fact that they are. If they weren't, then we'd have less culpability as a race. And if we simply shrug and reject that truth, then we'll inevitably make similar mistakes over and over.

    Regardless of how the book relays that message or whether it's appropriate (probably not well and also not appropriate), that isn't a bad subject to investigate, in and of itself.

    That the book has this little "...so let's not be so hard on them" undertone is the part that's so disgusting
    WIMBLIN.jpg
  • sarukunsarukun Carl Edgar Blake II Nerd-King of BaconRegistered User regular
    .
    wandering wrote: »
    Dichotomy wrote: »
    what?
    I'm saying I think negativity about OSC's work will go down when he dies, which will be nice for me because I enjoy his work. I think that happened when Michael Jackson died - people didn't really care about the pedophilia thing so much anymore and were more likely to talk about how much they enjoyed his work.

    People talk about Ender's Game having all these sinister messages and I don't really buy it - I think it's a novel about empathy and understanding. Peter seems like an awful bully but then the book shows you he's not this two dimensional villain - he's a human like anyone else -
    the buggers seem evil but then you come to understand them too. I don't think the good guys commit genocide because OSC thinks genocide is awesome but because it's a book about how even people who commit genocide are human.

    Just a helpful reminder that every character in Ender's Game is two-dimensional, not just the villain

    Also, "genocidal people are human too" is a really, really gross message. Like, really gross. Mega gross. To the max. And a weird one to put in a book where the kids' dialogue is, like, sixty percent talking about farts.

    That's absurd. The fact that they're relatable doesn't somehow take from the severity or horror of their crimes. Being able to comprehend and sympathize with a villain doesn't make them less of a villain, it makes them a tragic villain.
  • LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    I mean

    It's a fact that they are. If they weren't, then we'd have less culpability as a race. And if we simply shrug and reject that truth, then we'll inevitably make similar mistakes over and over.

    Regardless of how the book relays that message or whether it's appropriate (probably not well and also not appropriate), that isn't a bad subject to investigate, in and of itself.

    That the book has this little "...so let's not be so hard on them" undertone is the part that's so disgusting

    Oh ok well that is different!
    PoQ0cUz.jpg
  • smofsmof The meanest dinosaur Registered User regular
    Heeheeheehee

    "bugger"
  • AvrahamAvraham white men holding kittens dot tumblr dot comRegistered User regular
    Snork wrote: »
    Langly wrote: »
    I haven't read any of these, but I thought the later books revolved around the main character being disgusted by the result of the first? I'm confused to how that's tacit approval.

    Like, doesn't he
    switch sides and help the aliens
    Kind of? One of the earlier articles addresses this and dissects in a pretty thorough way, but what I remember happening is this:
    after genociding all the buggers, ender wanders the galaxy and feels super bad about it for a long time. then he anonymously publishes a book about how great the buggers were or something which causes public opinion to drastically turn against the xenocide and ender is generally thought of as a monster after that. he then eventually does resurrect the race in some outrageously contrived fashion, but i don't really remember the consequences of that because holy FUCK those books go off the rails insane towards the end.
    while when i was 12 i found this to be one of my favorite parts of the book (the fact that he exalts their culture as penance for destroying it) the criticism posted earlier in the thread makes the specific point that the only more heinous thing than obliterating and silencing an entire culture is to then take advantage of it to fill the silence with your version of the deceased. and while i would say that is certainly not how the acts are painted in the book, it is pretty definitively what happens and i find the idea itself to be pretty problematic.

    also i feel like it should be said that while there is definitely some weird shit going on between valentine and ender that even at age 11 i picked up on, i don't think the 'naming the aliens buggers = sex' thing really holds water specifically because card is american, the characters are american and it's one of those terms that really does not have ANY of the same connotations across the pond. i grew up hearing bugger as a noun describing tiny, cute or annoying things with a someone teasing tone. it is also a very obvious slang for an insectoid race- i had no idea it was even a british term until MUCH later, didn't realize it functioned as a verb until later than that, and (this might be embarassing? idk if this is everyone's experience) didn't even find out it is an overtly sexual term ( i think it means sodomy or something?) until i was like 20.
    I haven't read the sequels but couldn't you say that he's not appropriating their voices and taking advantage of them but attempting repentance / penance by memorializing them and preserving their history?
    USZCf.png :bz :bz
  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Registered User regular
    sarukun wrote: »
    .
    wandering wrote: »
    Dichotomy wrote: »
    what?
    I'm saying I think negativity about OSC's work will go down when he dies, which will be nice for me because I enjoy his work. I think that happened when Michael Jackson died - people didn't really care about the pedophilia thing so much anymore and were more likely to talk about how much they enjoyed his work.

    People talk about Ender's Game having all these sinister messages and I don't really buy it - I think it's a novel about empathy and understanding. Peter seems like an awful bully but then the book shows you he's not this two dimensional villain - he's a human like anyone else -
    the buggers seem evil but then you come to understand them too. I don't think the good guys commit genocide because OSC thinks genocide is awesome but because it's a book about how even people who commit genocide are human.

    Just a helpful reminder that every character in Ender's Game is two-dimensional, not just the villain

    Also, "genocidal people are human too" is a really, really gross message. Like, really gross. Mega gross. To the max. And a weird one to put in a book where the kids' dialogue is, like, sixty percent talking about farts.

    That's absurd. The fact that they're relatable doesn't somehow take from the severity or horror of their crimes. Being able to comprehend and sympathize with a villain doesn't make them less of a villain, it makes them a tragic villain.

    Again, that the book has this little "...so let's not be so hard on them" undertone is the part that's so disgusting

    And again, it's an interesting idea to explore, but a book where little kids talk about farts and play space laser tag is a weird fucking place to explore it
    WIMBLIN.jpg
  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Registered User regular
    Like, Downfall is a fascinating movie.

    Pretty stark absence of farts and/or laser tag
    WIMBLIN.jpg
  • SirEtchwartsSirEtchwarts Edward Kenway's yer man. Arg, Swashbuckle, Avast, etc.Registered User regular
    Speaking of that space laser tag I wouldn't mind a video game based on that "zero-g laser tag" concept
    acblackflag.jpg
  • AntimatterAntimatter I remember touch I need something moreRegistered User regular
    remember when symbionic titan had an episode that was a half hearted ripoff of ender's game written by paul dini, down to the zero g laser tag
    15Tpj.jpeg
  • GatsbyGatsby Last night I had a dream about you In this dream I'm dancing right beside youRegistered User regular
    Pepperidge Farm remembers...?
    daft2.gif
  • sarukunsarukun Carl Edgar Blake II Nerd-King of BaconRegistered User regular
    sarukun wrote: »
    .
    wandering wrote: »
    Dichotomy wrote: »
    what?
    I'm saying I think negativity about OSC's work will go down when he dies, which will be nice for me because I enjoy his work. I think that happened when Michael Jackson died - people didn't really care about the pedophilia thing so much anymore and were more likely to talk about how much they enjoyed his work.

    People talk about Ender's Game having all these sinister messages and I don't really buy it - I think it's a novel about empathy and understanding. Peter seems like an awful bully but then the book shows you he's not this two dimensional villain - he's a human like anyone else -
    the buggers seem evil but then you come to understand them too. I don't think the good guys commit genocide because OSC thinks genocide is awesome but because it's a book about how even people who commit genocide are human.

    Just a helpful reminder that every character in Ender's Game is two-dimensional, not just the villain

    Also, "genocidal people are human too" is a really, really gross message. Like, really gross. Mega gross. To the max. And a weird one to put in a book where the kids' dialogue is, like, sixty percent talking about farts.

    That's absurd. The fact that they're relatable doesn't somehow take from the severity or horror of their crimes. Being able to comprehend and sympathize with a villain doesn't make them less of a villain, it makes them a tragic villain.

    Again, that the book has this little "...so let's not be so hard on them" undertone is the part that's so disgusting

    And again, it's an interesting idea to explore, but a book where little kids talk about farts and play space laser tag is a weird fucking place to explore it

    Yes, okay.
  • smofsmof The meanest dinosaur Registered User regular
    Reading Anti's post just gave me a weird out of body experience where I saw myself in the future as an old lady, baffled by the speech of a teenager
  • smofsmof The meanest dinosaur Registered User regular
    Oh wait no that's just what is actually happening right now.
  • GatsbyGatsby Last night I had a dream about you In this dream I'm dancing right beside youRegistered User regular
    That was me, smof, when I found out my ten-year-old nephew at the time didn't know there was Pokemon Red and Blue.
    daft2.gif
  • AntimatterAntimatter I remember touch I need something moreRegistered User regular
    pfffffffft

    Genndy Tartakovsky, creator of Dexter's Laboratory, Powerpuff Girls, and Samurai Jack created a show called Symbionic Titan

    Paul Dini, writer of Batman the Animated Series and its subsequent related cartoons, wrote an episode for Symbionic Titan that was basically Ender's Game in a 22 minute pg rated cartoon format
    15Tpj.jpeg
  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    "Zero-g laser tag" just makes me think of that Futurama episode where Leela meets the cyclops guy while they're all playing the laser-shooty game.
  • sarukunsarukun Carl Edgar Blake II Nerd-King of BaconRegistered User regular
    Antimatter wrote: »
    pfffffffft

    Genndy Tartakovsky, creator of Dexter's Laboratory, Powerpuff Girls, and Samurai Jack created a show called Symbionic Titan

    Paul Dini, writer of Batman the Animated Series and its subsequent related cartoons, wrote an episode for Symbionic Titan that was basically Ender's Game in a 22 minute pg rated cartoon format

    I kind of liked that episode.
  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    Welcome to Opposite World.
  • sarukunsarukun Carl Edgar Blake II Nerd-King of BaconRegistered User regular
    Antimatter wrote: »
    i honestly didnt care for symbionic titan

    yes, you read that right

    the creator of samurai jack made a show about giant robots and I didn't care for it

    something is wrong there

    I have seen you gripe about it.

    But I still think it was an okay show.

    Biggest part of the show that consistently bugged me: either they do an amazing job of evacuating people

    or thousands die pretty much on the regular in that town.
  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    Machwing wrote: »
    Langly wrote: »
    I haven't read any of these, but I thought the later books revolved around the main character being disgusted by the result of the first? I'm confused to how that's tacit approval.

    Like, doesn't he
    switch sides and help the aliens

    From what I've read, Card writes it such that the reader is supposed to say, 'aw, Ender, you're being too hard on yourself!"

    which is bulllll-sheeeiiit
    I don't think you can really hold Ender morally culpable for
    xenociding the buggers
    sarukun wrote: »
    .
    wandering wrote: »
    Dichotomy wrote: »
    what?
    I'm saying I think negativity about OSC's work will go down when he dies, which will be nice for me because I enjoy his work. I think that happened when Michael Jackson died - people didn't really care about the pedophilia thing so much anymore and were more likely to talk about how much they enjoyed his work.

    People talk about Ender's Game having all these sinister messages and I don't really buy it - I think it's a novel about empathy and understanding. Peter seems like an awful bully but then the book shows you he's not this two dimensional villain - he's a human like anyone else -
    the buggers seem evil but then you come to understand them too. I don't think the good guys commit genocide because OSC thinks genocide is awesome but because it's a book about how even people who commit genocide are human.

    Just a helpful reminder that every character in Ender's Game is two-dimensional, not just the villain

    Also, "genocidal people are human too" is a really, really gross message. Like, really gross. Mega gross. To the max. And a weird one to put in a book where the kids' dialogue is, like, sixty percent talking about farts.

    That's absurd. The fact that they're relatable doesn't somehow take from the severity or horror of their crimes. Being able to comprehend and sympathize with a villain doesn't make them less of a villain, it makes them a tragic villain.

    Again, that the book has this little "...so let's not be so hard on them" undertone is the part that's so disgusting

    And again, it's an interesting idea to explore, but a book where little kids talk about farts and play space laser tag is a weird fucking place to explore it
    I think you do a disservice to the noble fart joke

    Shakespeare used fart jokes many times

    http://ultragross.blogspot.com/2011/04/fart-jokes-of-william-shakespeare.html
    jBEKRTH.png
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