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Jesus no, you pick cait to counter vayne because she can just poke poke poke poke and vayne can do nothing to coutner that. In fact one my say that cait is a hard counter to vayne in lane.
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since vayne really really should not win lane against cait :P.
And no Vayne 100% does not counter Caitlyn. Depending on their supports, the Vayne lane can be more or less aggressive, but honestly Caitlyn is the biggest reason I won't first pick Vayne very often. The range on Caitlyn is just so high that it's so easy for her to pelt Vayne with AAs early on. Of course Vayne outscales her with items, but it takes a while to reach that point where the Vayne can go ham on her.
Honestly, assuming equally skilled supports that don't hard counter each other, a good Caitlyn shouldn't lose lane to anybody, period. Even against Draven she can just constantly shove harder than he can so he has to fight her in minions if he wants to scrap.
1LP For a win when i'm at 98. How is it that i've never lost 1 LP?
Because you're coming up to your promotion between bronze and silver you will experience slow LP gain, because they want to make sure you're ready for the next tier. This happened to anyone who isn't on like a 40 game winning streak. This happened to Jun, this happened to many other players. Its part of the system. You really have to prove you're ready for silver.
I do wish you the best of luck you. You got this man!
In the words of 'Galaxy quest', NEVER GIVE UP! NEVER SURRENDER!'
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Think of it like climbing a mountain.
However hard you struggle to make the next step pales in comparison to what's at risk if you were to falter
The issue with Vayne Blue Build is that you can only apply frosty gloves procs with Vayne from 550 range, so if you're applying them you're probably in range to get dived by someone with a gap closer. The same for most other ADCs, honestly; unless you have some way to apply it at long range, blue build is really not super good, because you're still at major risks and do so little damage.
Because you need to show the system that you actually are better than where you are by consistently winning way more than you lose. That tells the system that you belong in a higher tier. If you can't do that then you are probably where you belong with your current skills.
If that is the case you need to stop blaming the system and take a good hard look at your own gameplay, and see what you can do to improve and win a lot more consistently.
My apologies if that sounds harsh, I certainly don't mean it that way, but the system is designed to force you to prove it wrong in order to advance. If you were really at a skill level equivalent to the next tier or higher you would very consistently win your games and progress to that tier. If you are struggling to win game consistently then you are probably very close to where you should be.
Again I don't mean that in a "play better" sort of way, just as an explanation for how the system functions. If you think you should be higher than you are then I would suggest getting lolreplay or streaming your games and being very critical of your own play and how you can improve. Focus on mastering the basics and you'll probably find that you will progress.
Delphin Twitch Stream:
The League System was created to help ranked ladder progression feel better. Progression feels horrible when you're in the highest division of your current League.
She gets to lane "play passive". She wants cait/Ali to play passive against vayne/thresh.
She eats free thresh harass all day and doesn't push the wave
At level 2 I flash pulve vayne under our tower and she keeps attacking thresh and then dies standing in the middle of their minion wave as if it was my fault
She walks into a thresh hook "gg. 1v2 bottom"
At the end of this she says vayne counters cait. Fffffffffffffffffffffff
Edit: she calls me bad after I ping her back from a vi gank. She stays forward gets flash hooked by thresh. I punt thresh and then interrupt Vi's dash with my pulverize and we both live. I peel two of the hardest engage champions in the game at the same time and she can't stop complaining
Well yes, that's because you can't fall down a league (At least not by losing). Therefore they need to be very certain you belong in the league you are attempting to enter. Imagine if you get into the next league by a fluke of lucky games. Now you are potentially stuck in a League where you are very outclassed. Not only that but you are potentially weighing down the others on your team in that league because of it.
It's not as big a deal in division advancement because you can fall down through losing in those. But going from Bronze to Silver, or Silver to Gold is a big deal, and you need to show you are much better than the League you are currently in by defeating them consistently.
Delphin Twitch Stream:
You're a braver man then I to pick Alistar into a pub ADC. I am also rusty on my Cow, who in season 2 was my favorite champion, by a mile. Now days lulu is my go to support.
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It isn't silly at all. It designed to make sure you're ready and are at the skill level for the next league. Its saying 'prove to me to deserve to be in the next league' As delph says; if you're having trouble winning those games, then you are probably not ready for the next league.
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Well yeah but I was trying to be nice
Delphin Twitch Stream:
what build is this?
Alistar is by far my best support. I am now 11/8 on him through the dregs of silver. I need to buy lulu and thresh though since riot is about to Nerf alistar into the ground inadvertently
Yah it depends on what they do to his E.
E: Milk Sheild, Provide all nearby champions with milk, that extra calcium provides a damage shield for 40/50/60/70. :P.
Lulu to me is just one of best supports right now. Her kit is just so fun to play with and even if you're ADC does bad, you can still use your entire kit for team fights on other players.
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I'm actually really excited for the PBE replay system to go live for this reason.
I haven't been able to tell the difference between the silver players and bronze players that i'm up against in my games. It's so negligible between players so this clamping seems ridiculous.
I think the same thing happened to me when I played street fighter competitively. But that felt a bit different because it was 1v1. This just seems to amplify the frustration that happens in LoL when you end up with support Katarina or some such bullshit.
Like if I would have somehow won the game where I had support katarina that would have been 4 in a row in then i'd be good enough for the promotion? There are just so many factors involved and when the LP gains and loses were less stingy the system felt more fair.
edit: The fact that you can't drop down once you reach a new tier gives the clamping validation.
I agree with you. The issue is that people think they are better than they are, and it is difficult to look at your own play compared to blaming outside sources.
Personally, league advancement doesn't interest me but even for those who don't care about advancing in the League I think it's still important to examine your own play and try and improve.
Delphin Twitch Stream:
Not that I really disagree but I swear there's a thing where if you're really bad for your division (say, silver V and losing) you'll wind up matched against bronzes and gain basically no LP from wins. IE you still effectively fall as far as the match makings concerned, it just doesn't change your badge?
Which begs the question of why they don't do the old system thing of showing your highest badge while still allowing transition between metals.
Dragonistx: btw i cant jungle
Dragonistx: soooo
Dragonistx: yeah
Dragonistx: lol
so annoying. so much weight to carry. so much weight.
Let me clarify my point: The current implementation of clamping is silly. I say it's silly because the league/division you're in is entirely cosmetic. It has nothing to do with the players you're actually being matched with (since that's based on your hidden MMR/ELO).
Since the system is entirely cosmetic, and it's supposed to be there to make progressing through ranked feel better, there's no reason for your LP gains to come to a crushing halt when you hit Division 1. It's purely cosmetic, you can do something to make it feel better. Spread the diminishing LP gains out starting at Division 2 or 3 if needed.
I understand why clamping exists, but it should feel better than it does right now. If you make a new system to help progression feel better, you shouldn't hit sudden spikes where advancement suddenly feels like a grind.
Yeah this is what I wanted to say with a level head.
I totally get it. I really do. But do they have to make it feel sisyphean? Where I am right now I see players from Bronze II to Silver IV.
That's technically my skill level but it shows up as just Bronze I and that is disappointing. It feels like beating those silver opponents doesn't count for squat so the progress isn't rewarding. It's just frustrating.
If you're on a massive winning streak you will not hit the clamping point. If you're just slowly progressing through the league, then the clamping is designed to stop you from just making it into the next league. This is because once you're in that next league you can't go down, you're silver for life (bar never playing ranked for 25 days and then you can drop down).
If you deserve to be in the next league, then you should be carrying pretty much every game, with little difficulty. Your MMR and your league are not 'SUPER FAR AWAY FROM EACHOTHER'. In fact as you balance out your W/L they get closer and closer.
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They're going to kill the sustain on his e. Because Morello is a dumb dumb head and thinks that its not OK for Alistar to have good engage, peel, and sustain... Despite the fact that he doesn't have the best engage, peel, or sustain and if you nerf his sustain its better to just play Thresh for your "best engage and peel in one champion" choice or Lulu for your "second best engage and best peel while also dumb high damage" choice.
Basically someone was like "I think Alistar is kind of weak" and Morello said "we don't think its fair that Alistar, unlike the other tank supports, is half decent when you're behind so we want to nerf his sustain and do something else with his e"
The discussion went like this
Some Guy: Hey Morello, Alistar is kind of weak, his passive isn't particularly useful. The fact that it auto pushes waves makes it hard to use with my ADC since the damage will make CSing hard. The fact that it does damage means i can't spellcast under towers if enemies are near without taking aggro i might not want.
Morello: We are thinking about changing his e
Community: Wait what?
Morello: Alistar can't be a sustain, engage, and peel support all at the same time.
Community: Wait What? Alistar is a sustain support?
Morello: Well what if we did nothing
Community: Well that sounds good. But we have no clue what we are talking about. What you can't do however is give him more engage or peel that would be OP.
Morello: Well we are thinking about giving him more engage or peel
Me: All of that is retarded
So basically if you enjoy Alistar's sustain Morello is probably going to fuck you. And either make Alistar hilariously OP or hilariously UP.
Edit: I should explain a bit where I think that Alistar falls. Alistar is probably the perfect soloqueue support. He provides a solid mix of engage and peel so that you can both be the playmaker and protect your carry depending on what is called for. His sustain in lane largely does nothing except insulate himself from being poked out by champions that are longer range than he is. Without his sustain he does nothing, since every champion except taric would push him out of lane.
This provides him a similar space as Thresh, whereas thresh provides his own poke so as to soften up enemies to be engaged upon Alistar provides sustain for the same purpose. Whereas Thresh provides massive ally displacement, Alistar provides massive enemy displacement. He doesn't have the super peel or protection like Lulu or Janna so he relies on playing passive or aggressive as the situation calls (you're head peel, you're behind, kill enemy carry). His lane presence is in general very low. He has a high all in threat at 650 so long as his ADC has a relocate. He has a super-high all-in threat at 450 if he has his flash up. But compared to someone who has free all the time tank stats (like Thresh/Taric/Leona to a lesser degree) he can't bully easily. His all-in range is the lowest of any tank support with the exception of Nunu (who gives his ADC free stats) and Taric (who gives himself and his ADC free tank stats). Compared to someone who has high poke, he needs everything to be in the right position in order to make his threats work.
2 tanks 2 carryous
Soraka ditched us early.
BF3/PS2/MWO/Hawken: CabbageOfDiscord | Minecraft: BrotherCabbage
That Kha'zix build hurts my soul, in fact apart of my brain wants to black out this image so I don't have to remember his summoners and build.
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Nami does not need to conform to your puny mamillian ways. One day the fish shall rule the land. One daaay.
Wait his E is his triumphant roar thing right.
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The only problem is that the MMR system can't tell the difference between a legitimately very good player and a person who just happens to be on a streak.
If you win 10 in a row then immediately lose 10 in a row. Congratulations you're promoted even though on average you won every other game.
If you win one then lose one 10 times in a row. No promotion for you.
That isn't exactly a fair measurement but it is an entirely possible outcome with the system in place.
His e is his heal. Which, while it kinda sucks, is centrally important to keeping him in lane against anyone with poke.... which is everyone. (it also passively pushes the lane which is a hidden benefit)
Since he has the lowest all-in threat range of any support except Nunu and Taric (who both have sustain and free stats) this means that he would lose lane to pretty much everyone except Taric and Leona (I.E. the only other people with no range at all with Alistar having the ability to peel them effectively) and those lanes are swingy because both Taric and Leona do more damage than Alistar.
Lets be fair, Nami also has poke, and a massive team fight changing ultimate.
Win 10 times in a row. Get matched against harder opponents before losing ten times in matches the system thought you would lose would still be a higher result than winning and losing alternately and staying in the same rough place MMR wise.
10 is a bit of an exaggeration but there is a big reward for going on streaks. Imagine this scenario.
Two teams end up going 5-5 at the end of their seasons.
Team A has this record. WLWLWWLLWL
Team B has this record. LWWWWLLLL
is Team B the better team?
As a point of clarification I wouldn't be upset at all if it was all Bronze I players that I am matched against. But it's not. There's a range both up and down and that is what makes the clamp seem so frustrating. On the other side of that promotion series i'm still going to be facing the same caliber of opponent.
Is 2LP really that big of a difference in skill
no.